> > Are you are using the I AM reference as that of the Hebrew Yahweh > translation?
Well, I can't say that I am well versed enough in Hebrew studies to be making an adequate reference to this. I do think that knowing "I am" is a much different state of consciousness than the object related "I am that" > Is your capitalized "THAT" the Hebrew word asher? As in I am That I > am? Or do you relate with Vam's latin sum mum bono? I think that even these references mean different things to different people who have studied these concepts. > You also reference the "Alpha and Omega" which I know is a Revelation > verse referring to the Christ and correlated to the Isaiah verse > reference First and Last. Yes, and also greek alphabet letters. I don't pretend to be a bible scholar, although I am fascinated with the passages as I see them as diagrams for consciousness raising. I am not familiar with the passage you site so I looked it up and here is the King James version of Revelation 1:8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. This is a good example of my meaning. Because the beginning and the end are just markers, we are more - what is, what was and what will be - all time > I ask this as a means of evaluating your objectivity or more or less > getting a better idea of the nature of your objectivity. I will try to do a better job in exploring what I mean by object. Any time we see something apart from ourselves, we objectify it. Whether a keyboard, person, painting, car, store - any thing. At the level of the many they are separate. This is nothing new and has references as old as written language, Descartes writing probably the foremost in our minds. And yet, these objects are also extensions of ourselves and expressions of who we are in the moment and the possibility of our becoming. I believe that our relationship to these "things" and our responses in thoughts and feeling determine the nature of our experience, in dream and waking life. The difference is that in dream, the logic of our thoughts is less constrained by societal models. We all tend to think in terms that allow us to relate to our larger society. And this is good. It allows us to fully explore the experience of one and many. If we can hold ourselves in a place of love, feeling compassion for "other" is not limited to a respect for the other, but becomes an expression of love that creates and continues a loving experience. Not easy to do under difficult circumstances - and it is these times that drive can drive us internally to the core of our being to find the essential possibility of love. To reach that ultimate state of creation "the Almighty" (referenced above)sometimes takes adversity, but once the pathway has been forged, we can return and set up camp, if we desire to do so. If not, we have the opportunity to witness our resistance to do so, giving us insight into our internal natures where we can choose (or not) the thoughts, feelings and states that create or experience anew. > Basically, are you attaching biblical reference to your dreamscape? I try not to do this because it puts people off. But as I believe my dreamscape to be a reflection of my consciousness, and the bible a collection of diagrams for consciousness raising, they might apply. I don't consciously relate the two and avoid doing so in my writing, though enjoy swimming with a buddy in these waters if I find someone who is simpatico. > I'm not discounting it but simply want to get a clearer view of what > direction we are going. As you say "even the beginning is a rambling > road", this is why I'm trying to sort it out. Thanks for the wonderful chat, Slip. I can see the campfire and that bottle of wine right now. > Statements such as "............I create, according to a simple design > that > includes knowing that I AM the creator and the creation.", seem to me > in need of more clarity, especially that you are talking about your > dreaming. Don't let me off the hook for responding to this, Slip. Right now, as my mother in law passed away yesterday (peacefully in her sleep,) I must run off for attention to family. There are many emotions and transitions here, much alpha and omega. Back in the next quiet moment, my friend. Molly > On Feb 5, 8:26 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a > > descriptive > > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"? > > > As Vam implies, for me, the "I am" is all encompassing. It includes > > the seer and the seen and the seeing. For me, it also includes the > > alpha and omega, the beginning and end - that point of creation where > > Logos is breathed into form. At that point, there is no object or > > THAT, just me, and all that I am. I am also all that is, subjective > > and objective. > > > I know that this viewpoint is not shared by all. But I do think it is > > innate in all. From discussions about Heidegger and Husserl, object > > and subject, I can see that there are folks that cannot get past the > > idea that each of us is separate from the other, and it is true, we > > are. But we are also more. There is more to knowing we are one than > > just knowing there is something we have in common that we all share. > > This is a leap that is difficult to discuss without having experienced > > it. Discussions of the non dual are the closest I've seen. > > > My sleep experience changed once I let go of the notion of self and > > other, and was able to rest in the knowing that everything that passes > > through my consciousness, I create, according to a simple design that > > includes knowing that I AM the creator and the creation. Now, I think > > that most of my sleep time is spent in those parts of me that I can > > only describe as pure love. The longer I can stay there, the more the > > rest of all that I am falls in line with that loving experience. I > > like to sleep 10 hrs. a night. I hold that space for everyone and all > > that is I am. Of course, I also have dreams that allow me to problem > > solve and create, dreams that remind me of the archetypes that hold me > > near to the many, dreams that reflect my own resistance. I try to pay > > attention to them all, and recognize the importance in all that they > > are - and then let them go. Because I am in motion, and more is > > coming into my experience that reflects all that I am and the > > possibility of more. > > > I don't want to give anyone the impression that my life is > > uncomplicated or without difficulty. I think that this is a > > reflection of my resistance. I feel anger and sadness and joy and > > love - but don't fall as much into the patterned emotion based on past > > experience of these feeling as I once did. I hope I will continue to > > find a more pure feeling for life as time goes on. I find that it is > > easier if I focus more on the good and less on the "not me" or "what I > > don't like", although those parts of me are visited too as they > > reflect my own resistance to me. I have found that if I dwell there > > and don't let go, I just get more of the same, along with an emotional > > rush that creates a drive for more - very addicting. In other words, > > focusing on I am allows me more of that experience of pure feeling. > > Focusing on I am not, creates the object - I am not that - and limits > > experience to the states that require an object. I am so much more > > than that. > > > Thanks for stating your question, Slip, as "where would you begin to > > define." As you can see, even the beginning is a rambling road. > > > On Feb 4, 8:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > States beyond the physical senses in dreams are what I base my concept > > > on. When there is no indication of physical representation (of the > > > dreamer) within the dream, there is the possibility that the > > > subconscious has entered the cosmic realm, even if only as a voyeur to > > > witness an occurrence elsewhere. In this state one can transverse > > > time and space. I have many dreams in which I only have visual > > > presence without active physical participation, like I'm just there to > > > see what is taking place. Aside from other types of dreams, these > > > visual only dreams are the ones that bring about the questions. The > > > "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a descriptive > > > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"? > > > > On Feb 3, 11:46 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us > > > > to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter > > > > states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept > > > > of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever > > > > will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a > > > > sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about > > > > viewpoint. > > > > > On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination. > > > > > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious activity > > > > > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of > > > > > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which > > > > > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a > > > > > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold between > > > > > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with the repression of > > > > > specific aspects of the consciousness and viewed the unconscious as a > > > > > spiritual realm with dreams being a portal to the unconscious and > > > > > served as solution source for our conscious problems. I can see how he > > > > > developed his concept shadow by viewing reality and the subconscious > > > > > as sort of mirror images. Still neither Freud or Jung addressed my > > > > > concept of dream travel in which dreams reflect a third, fourth and > > > > > maybe fifth dimension of subconsciousness. Alfred Adler and Frederick > > > > > Perls (Gestalt Therapy) had similar parallels but also had not > > > > > explored other theories but also remained in the traditional or > > > > > conventional interpretative circle. > > > > > > Again, aside from the conventional wisdom, I offer new dimensions to > > > > > dreaming such as: > > > > > Was it "really" me in the dream? > > > > > Was it the subconscious of someone else in "my" dream? > > > > > Was it something that was happening at that moment in my dream or > > > > > something that happened in the past or going to happen in the future? > > > > > Was it simply someone's dream that I intercepted? > > > > > > On Feb 3, 6:21 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation > > > > > > for > > > > > > dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for > > > > > > our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of > > > > > > sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just > > > > > > experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of > > > > > > experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged. > > > > > > Our > > > > > > consciousness, however, will not retain all of this. > > > > > > > REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness > > > > > > structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams > > > > > > are > > > > > > the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this > > > > > > sorting > > > > > > out process. > > > > > > > This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are > > > > > > signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us, > > > > > > in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to > > > > > > issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always > > > > > > available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be > > > > > > careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific > > > > > > images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a > > > > > > higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental > > > > > > connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some > > > > > > of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under > > > > > > the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then, > > > > > > no > > > > > > significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself > > > > > > around > > > > > > a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance, > > > > > > which > > > > > > I still hadn't decided to throw away. > > > > > > > Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has > > > > > > some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject. > > > > > > > On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation. > > > > > > > Try > > > > > > > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly > > > > > > > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below) > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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