smile
On Feb 5, 2:51 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> I can see fully what your "objective" everyday life must mean to you.
> My deepest sympathy, Molly.
>
> On 5 Feb., 15:26, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a
> > descriptive
> > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"?
>
> > As Vam implies, for me, the "I am" is all encompassing. It includes
> > the seer and the seen and the seeing. For me, it also includes the
> > alpha and omega, the beginning and end - that point of creation where
> > Logos is breathed into form. At that point, there is no object or
> > THAT, just me, and all that I am. I am also all that is, subjective
> > and objective.
>
> > I know that this viewpoint is not shared by all. But I do think it is
> > innate in all. From discussions about Heidegger and Husserl, object
> > and subject, I can see that there are folks that cannot get past the
> > idea that each of us is separate from the other, and it is true, we
> > are. But we are also more. There is more to knowing we are one than
> > just knowing there is something we have in common that we all share.
> > This is a leap that is difficult to discuss without having experienced
> > it. Discussions of the non dual are the closest I've seen.
>
> > My sleep experience changed once I let go of the notion of self and
> > other, and was able to rest in the knowing that everything that passes
> > through my consciousness, I create, according to a simple design that
> > includes knowing that I AM the creator and the creation. Now, I think
> > that most of my sleep time is spent in those parts of me that I can
> > only describe as pure love. The longer I can stay there, the more the
> > rest of all that I am falls in line with that loving experience. I
> > like to sleep 10 hrs. a night. I hold that space for everyone and all
> > that is I am. Of course, I also have dreams that allow me to problem
> > solve and create, dreams that remind me of the archetypes that hold me
> > near to the many, dreams that reflect my own resistance. I try to pay
> > attention to them all, and recognize the importance in all that they
> > are - and then let them go. Because I am in motion, and more is
> > coming into my experience that reflects all that I am and the
> > possibility of more.
>
> > I don't want to give anyone the impression that my life is
> > uncomplicated or without difficulty. I think that this is a
> > reflection of my resistance. I feel anger and sadness and joy and
> > love - but don't fall as much into the patterned emotion based on past
> > experience of these feeling as I once did. I hope I will continue to
> > find a more pure feeling for life as time goes on. I find that it is
> > easier if I focus more on the good and less on the "not me" or "what I
> > don't like", although those parts of me are visited too as they
> > reflect my own resistance to me. I have found that if I dwell there
> > and don't let go, I just get more of the same, along with an emotional
> > rush that creates a drive for more - very addicting. In other words,
> > focusing on I am allows me more of that experience of pure feeling.
> > Focusing on I am not, creates the object - I am not that - and limits
> > experience to the states that require an object. I am so much more
> > than that.
>
> > Thanks for stating your question, Slip, as "where would you begin to
> > define." As you can see, even the beginning is a rambling road.
>
> > On Feb 4, 8:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > States beyond the physical senses in dreams are what I base my concept
> > > on. When there is no indication of physical representation (of the
> > > dreamer) within the dream, there is the possibility that the
> > > subconscious has entered the cosmic realm, even if only as a voyeur to
> > > witness an occurrence elsewhere. In this state one can transverse
> > > time and space. I have many dreams in which I only have visual
> > > presence without active physical participation, like I'm just there to
> > > see what is taking place. Aside from other types of dreams, these
> > > visual only dreams are the ones that bring about the questions. The
> > > "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a descriptive
> > > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"?
>
> > > On Feb 3, 11:46 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us
> > > > to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter
> > > > states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept
> > > > of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever
> > > > will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a
> > > > sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about
> > > > viewpoint.
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination.
> > > > > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious activity
> > > > > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of
> > > > > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which
> > > > > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a
> > > > > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold between
> > > > > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with the repression of
> > > > > specific aspects of the consciousness and viewed the unconscious as a
> > > > > spiritual realm with dreams being a portal to the unconscious and
> > > > > served as solution source for our conscious problems. I can see how he
> > > > > developed his concept shadow by viewing reality and the subconscious
> > > > > as sort of mirror images. Still neither Freud or Jung addressed my
> > > > > concept of dream travel in which dreams reflect a third, fourth and
> > > > > maybe fifth dimension of subconsciousness. Alfred Adler and Frederick
> > > > > Perls (Gestalt Therapy) had similar parallels but also had not
> > > > > explored other theories but also remained in the traditional or
> > > > > conventional interpretative circle.
>
> > > > > Again, aside from the conventional wisdom, I offer new dimensions to
> > > > > dreaming such as:
> > > > > Was it "really" me in the dream?
> > > > > Was it the subconscious of someone else in "my" dream?
> > > > > Was it something that was happening at that moment in my dream or
> > > > > something that happened in the past or going to happen in the future?
> > > > > Was it simply someone's dream that I intercepted?
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 6:21 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for
> > > > > > our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of
> > > > > > sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just
> > > > > > experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of
> > > > > > experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged.
> > > > > > Our
> > > > > > consciousness, however, will not retain all of this.
>
> > > > > > REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness
> > > > > > structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this
> > > > > > sorting
> > > > > > out process.
>
> > > > > > This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are
> > > > > > signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us,
> > > > > > in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to
> > > > > > issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always
> > > > > > available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be
> > > > > > careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific
> > > > > > images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a
> > > > > > higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental
> > > > > > connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some
> > > > > > of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under
> > > > > > the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then,
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > I still hadn't decided to throw away.
>
> > > > > > Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has
> > > > > > some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject.
>
> > > > > > On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation.
> > > > > > > Try
> > > > > > > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly
> > > > > > > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below)
>
> > > > > > > There are strange occurrences in dreams that leave us in a state
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > awe at times delving deep for interpretation. What usually
> > > > > > > strikes me
> > > > > > > most in my dreams are situations that are really bazaar and
> > > > > > > unaccounted for in consciousness, the people I've never met and
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > places I've never been. Regardless of the lucidity of dreams,
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > are obviously very symbolic with unimaginable situations and
> > > > > > > objects,
> > > > > > > like flying, clowns and the transformation of inanimate objects to
> > > > > > > real life beings. I haven't paid much attention to dreams as of
> > > > > > > late
> > > > > > > due to a Sciatica attack that has had me on heavy medication for
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > past two weeks, I feel like I'm in a daze and can't really
> > > > > > > function
> > > > > > > well, my equilibrium is imbalanced, my thoughts are fragmented and
> > > > > > > I've lost continuity of focus.
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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