Nice, I've never seen that one, makes for a good laugh though.
On Feb 7, 3:11 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good to know I could get a laugh out of you, Craig. Sometimes it's the
> best answer to the kind of despairing feeling of senselessness and
> injustice expressed in the Kierkegaard citation quoted by Orn. Or, as
> the Monty Pythons put it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ
> (another take on the Christian "slave" mentality! :-))
>
> Francis
>
> On 7 Feb., 22:56, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Haha. I actually laughed out loud when I read this comment. Very
> > clever.
>
> > On Feb 7, 2:51 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Not at all, Craig. After all, you've defined the Nazis as socialists
> > > here, and we all know you're not a socialist. ;-)
>
> > > On 7 Feb., 22:39, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > So is the implication that I am a Nazi?
>
> > > > On Feb 7, 2:32 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > It's from Hitler’s Zweites Buch.
>
> > > > > On Feb 7, 3:19 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Nope.
>
> > > > > > On 7 Feb., 21:51, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > victor david hanson?
>
> > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 2:45 PM, frantheman
> > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On 7 Feb., 01:29, frantheman <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined
> > > > > > > >> for all
> > > > > > > >> sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is
> > > > > > > >> misrepresentational.
> > > > > > > >> Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of
> > > > > > > >> Homeric
> > > > > > > >> Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave
> > > > > > > >> theme,
> > > > > > > >> although others have found it inspiring:
>
> > > > > > > >> "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure,
> > > > > > > >> but not
> > > > > > > >> our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic
> > > > > > > >> nonsense.
> > > > > > > >> The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty
> > > > > > > >> thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high
> > > > > > > >> racial
> > > > > > > >> value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic
> > > > > > > >> race
> > > > > > > >> preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first
> > > > > > > >> Völkisch
> > > > > > > >> State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short
> > > > > > > >> their
> > > > > > > >> destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times
> > > > > > > >> more humane
> > > > > > > >> than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most
> > > > > > > >> pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes
> > > > > > > >> the life
> > > > > > > >> of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth
> > > > > > > >> control
> > > > > > > >> or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of
> > > > > > > >> degenerates burdened with illnesses."
>
> > > > > > > >> Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following:
>
> > > > > > > > I may not have expressed this clearly. The author was NOT
> > > > > > > > Nietzsche.
>
> > > > > > > >> "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history
> > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > >> Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all
> > > > > > > >> Europe, and
> > > > > > > >> the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions.
> > > > > > > >> It was
> > > > > > > >> Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the
> > > > > > > >> Germans or
> > > > > > > >> the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the
> > > > > > > >> materialist and
> > > > > > > >> technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical
> > > > > > > >> level.
> > > > > > > >> When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> masses."
>
> > > > > > > >> Francis
>
> > > > > > > >> On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> > Fran,
> > > > > > > >> > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously
> > > > > > > >> > committed
> > > > > > > >> > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was
> > > > > > > >> > committed
> > > > > > > >> > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do
> > > > > > > >> > get quite
> > > > > > > >> > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the
> > > > > > > >> > type of
> > > > > > > >> > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly
> > > > > > > >> > of pre-
> > > > > > > >> > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic
> > > > > > > >> > Athens.
> > > > > > > >> > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't
> > > > > > > >> > adopt the
> > > > > > > >> > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all.
>
> > > > > > > >> > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity,
> > > > > > > >> > and yet
> > > > > > > >> > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large
> > > > > > > >> > Christian,
> > > > > > > >> > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say
> > > > > > > >> > they believe
> > > > > > > >> > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably
> > > > > > > >> > don't
> > > > > > > >> > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world
> > > > > > > >> > view goes,
> > > > > > > >> > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the
> > > > > > > >> > Judeo-Christian world
> > > > > > > >> > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism.
> > > > > > > >> > Judeo-
> > > > > > > >> > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds
> > > > > > > >> > a culture
> > > > > > > >> > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and
> > > > > > > >> > powerful and
> > > > > > > >> > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven
> > > > > > > >> > down into
> > > > > > > >> > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic.
>
> > > > > > > >> > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest
> > > > > > > >> > truth, Bush
> > > > > > > >> > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem,
> > > > > > > >> > not the
> > > > > > > >> > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less
> > > > > > > >> > pathetic
> > > > > > > >> > than most.
>
> > > > > > > >> > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > >> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to
> > > > > > > >> > > understand. What is
> > > > > > > >> > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in
> > > > > > > >> > > Germany. I
> > > > > > > >> > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my
> > > > > > > >> > > birth, or the
> > > > > > > >> > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We
> > > > > > > >> > > are all
> > > > > > > >> > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get
> > > > > > > >> > > worse) as a
> > > > > > > >> > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for
> > > > > > > >> > > economic
> > > > > > > >> > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to
> > > > > > > >> > > examine the
> > > > > > > >> > > principles according to which we organise our communal
> > > > > > > >> > > life and effect
> > > > > > > >> > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a
> > > > > > > >> > > particular
> > > > > > > >> > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as
> > > > > > > >> > > being
> > > > > > > >> > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute
> > > > > > > >> > > threat, both
> > > > > > > >> > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of
> > > > > > > >> > > looking at
> > > > > > > >> > > the world. I live in a western European country, where
> > > > > > > >> > > much, like
> > > > > > > >> > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit
> > > > > > > >> > > of a mess.
> > > > > > > >> > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society
> > > > > > > >> > > where a basic
> > > > > > > >> > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally,
> > > > > > > >> > > peace, the
> > > > > > > >> > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It
> > > > > > > >> > > is a
> > > > > > > >> > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of
> > > > > > > >> > > fundamental
> > > > > > > >> > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who
> > > > > > > >> > > are weaker
> > > > > > > >> > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable
> > > > > > > >> > > world on to
> > > > > > > >> > > our children and grandchildren.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do
> > > > > > > >> > > not feel
> > > > > > > >> > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the
> > > > > > > >> > > most populous
> > > > > > > >> > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries
> > > > > > > >> > > of China and
> > > > > > > >> > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale,
> > > > > > > >> > > something
> > > > > > > >> > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have
> > > > > > > >> > > mentioned alone
> > > > > > > >> > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think
> > > > > > > >> > > there is a
> > > > > > > >> > > good chance that their continuing economic development
> > > > > > > >> > > will be
> > > > > > > >> > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive
> > > > > > > >> > > developments in
> > > > > > > >> > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here).
> > > > > > > >> > > But maybe one
> > > > > > > >> > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these
> > > > > > > >> > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular
> > > > > > > >> > > vision of
> > > > > > > >> > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a
> > > > > > > >> > > gun, or
> > > > > > > >> > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as
> > > > > > > >> > > the tiger
> > > > > > > >> > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically
> > > > > > > >> > > dominated
> > > > > > > >> > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part -
> > > > > > > >> > > and this makes
> > > > > > > >> > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive
> > > > > > > >> > > as
> > > > > > > >> > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the
> > > > > > > >> > > status quo) by
> > > > > > > >> > > the West.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty,
> > > > > > > >> > > equality,
> > > > > > > >> > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the
> > > > > > > >> > > rule of law,
> > > > > > > >> > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied
> > > > > > > >> > > (in many
> > > > > > > >> > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western
> > > > > > > >> > > democracies. They
> > > > > > > >> > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that
> > > > > > > >> > > example is
> > > > > > > >> > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to
> > > > > > > >> > > these values
> > > > > > > >> > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies,
> > > > > > > >> > > and the
> > > > > > > >> > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest
> > > > > > > >> > > arguments for
> > > > > > > >> > > their more widespread adoption.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we
> > > > > > > >> > > must, of
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
