;) You're not getting my DMT levels too high...and you left out Ketamine! What I'm merely stating is that it's not too difficult to understand what an OBE is, nor to have one anytime you feel like. Accomplishing that state by producing your own DMT is quite a feat, but given what I've seen well trained athletes and martial artists accomplish in altering their metabolism on command, I don't have problem believing it's possible.
" I believe there to be a spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and dream states without any influence from DMT." While you're dreaming? Well blood hell, of course. I can also fly while I'm dreaming, certainly don't need DMT for that. As for "spiritual states", I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. If you're talking about being awake and in some sort of trance, I'd refer you back to those chemical cocktails...there's loads of research that's quite easy to find on what exactly is going on in the brain in those kinds of "spiritual states"...and ruling out DMT, or one of a small handful of other neurochemicals, would be a misunderstanding of the processes at play in the brain. On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > Easy now Bubba, don't get your DMT level up too high!! I didn't say > it was difficult to understand, it's just that you are making a direct > link seemingly (from my fundamentally vacant mental state) discounting > any other cause for OBE, possibly the insinuation was also on my part, > but I did think that your insinuation was that OBE was only attainable > through DMT. Technically OBE's are associated with NDE's but they > are not exclusively confined to that mode. I believe there to be a > spontaneity aspect of OBE that occurs during spiritual and dream > states without any influence from DMT. > I do understand that you are being supportive of my post when you are > saying that DMT had most likely a great influence on my personal > experience and I agree with that assessment, however, there are other > means of inducing OBE, such as Meditative techniques, Mental and > Mechanical induction, the Mind Awake Body Asleep state (used by Thomas > Edison), Etc............what I'm saying is that triggers other than > DMT, Dextromethorphan, PCP, and the newest Salvia Divinorum exist. > > On Feb 16, 2:19 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm not insinuating, I'm stating for the record. > > 1. DMT produces an effect that is similar in nature for all users, > differing > > only in the perception of the user. It typically begins with the user > > feeling that they are floating out of their body, up towards the ceiling, > > having the impression they are seeing their body and the room, then being > > drawn towards a tunnel of some sort, passing through the tunnel, into a > > different place which can either be described as "heaven", "hell", or > some > > other type of mythical environment, where they often encounter "angel", > > "demons", "fairies", "aliens", or there supernatural entities, and at the > > end of said experience, they are drawn back into their bodies. > > > > 2. DMT is naturally produced in the human body, and its production spikes > > during times of extreme duress, most notably near and at death. > > > > What's difficult to understand about this? > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I guess you are insinuating that out of body, astral and other are > > > only affects attainable through DMT. There have been documented > > > stories of people clinically pronounced dead then regaining > > > consciousness that remember seeing themselves laying in the hospital > > > bed. These days with advances in cardiac resuscitation the incidences > > > of death and near death experiences are increasing along with stories > > > of the beyond. I myself experienced lung collapse due to pneumonia, > > > of which I was unaware of but perceived to be another back ache and > > > which I further exacerbated by treating it with muscle relaxants, > > > thereby allowing the pneumonia to progress to the point of the > > > collapse. > > > > > On Feb 16, 9:20 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Slip Disc, there's no reason to dismiss it, when it's been well > > > documented, > > > > and fully explained. > > > > Google "effects of DiMethylTryptamine". > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > We can't dismiss the possibility of out of body experience and the > > > > > occurrence of other phenomena in the death experience, based upon > > > > > death in the sleep mode. Coming from you Pat, I'm a bit dismayed as > > > > > you should have the wherewithal to explain it better than I. > However, > > > > > I can relay a portion of my experience within a coma at which time > I > > > > > did know I was dying, so even in the subconscious mind there is > > > > > "awareness" of death. Would you rather be awake watching yourself > die > > > > > or be a floating apparition watching yourself sleep? Aside from > that > > > > > we can't be sure that a person who dies sleeping was actually in > fact > > > > > sleeping by all outward appearances. One could be too weak to open > > > > > the eyes but be very well aware of the people standing around and > the > > > > > impending cross over into the afterlife. > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 6:39 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 16 Feb, 01:17, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > What you say is true. There is no assurances, but I'd still be > > > > > > > willing to bet my life on it being more comfortable or at the > least > > > > > > > aware. That is my greatest desire to be cogently aware of > what's > > > > > > > going on as it happens. I'd give up calm and peace for > awareness. > > > > > > > Though I must say your fur coat in hunting season approach has > it's > > > > > > > points. > > > > > > > > You and me both, Gruff. I want to know when it's coming. The > LAST > > > > > > thing I want to do is to die in my sleep: how will I know I'm > dead? > > > > > > Especially if there IS and aftertime. Of course, if there isn't, > > > then > > > > > > it won't matter; but I'd still prefer to know that the time is > coming > > > > > > so I can acknowledge the end of my life. But, whatever happens, > it > > > > > > will be that which is required to happen and my desires and > > > > > > preferences are, most likely, irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 11:06 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Who is to say that your suicidal method will assure more > comfort > > > and > > > > > > > > exclude any and all instances of panic, including but not > limited > > > to > > > > > > > > subconscious awareness of self induced destruction leading to > a > > > > > > > > struggle out of simple survival instinct, which may no longer > be > > > > > > > > optional to the conscious mind after succumbing to the > > > inducement. > > > > > > > > The body may react violently to fight off the inducement and > > > appear > > > > > as > > > > > > > > if in a state of turmoil or torment. We may imagine a drug > > > induced > > > > > > > > demise to be passive but can not identify with the > subconscious > > > as > > > > > > > > what is exactly going on. This is a controversial subject > > > concerning > > > > > > > > the use of lethal injection in criminal death penalty cases. > > > > > > > > Personally I would opt to wear a fur coat in a densely wooded > > > area > > > > > > > > during hunting season and make loud grunting sounds.- Hide > quoted > > > > > text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
