The trouble with knowing what the mystics know is - the mystics understand that everyone must come to this experience on their own, and once they are genuinely open to the possibility (and I am not talking about wanting to know what someone else knows so that they can shoot it down from their perspective), the information will come to you, and your experience will occur. This is the mystical tradition. They do not bother to provide proof, because they understand that it is an individual, internal process that allows the experience.
The trouble with knowing what science knows about bi location and tele- portation, is that attempts to produce these mechanically have failed disastrously like the US Philadelphia Experiment, where the gov. scientists attempted to create a space time vortex and move a battle ship from Hawaii to New York. Since then, the US government has quashed any open experimentation along these lines, although Nickolai Tesla http://www.teslasociety.com/biography.htm experimented with it for many years, and some of his students and their students continue http://www.projectcamelot.org/ralph_ring.html Because the study of dreams is more psychology based, you will be hard pressed to find any "proofs" as psychology is not hard science. But you can easily find accounts of folks who believe they share dreams on the internet. I myself have done it, and again, I think if you are genuinely open to the possibility, it may just happen for you too. On Aug 15, 1:30 pm, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote: > Is there documented proof that this potential exists? > > On Aug 15, 11:14 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes, interaction with real people, physical contact all inclusive of > > feelings, touching, pain. Not a visual within an obscurity setting > > but a physical reality of being at a place, standing on the floor > > knowing you are somewhere else and awareness of the dream. There was > > a great aspect of this that Pat had brought up in the original > > thread, that one could possibly within a dream, write a note and place > > it in a drawer and another could in a dream go to that drawer and find > > the note, call the other and reveal the contents of the note. > > > On Aug 15, 9:55 am, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > When you say, "interact with others", do you mean real people? If so, > > > how do you know they are real and not just a face that you are > > > communicating with in your dream? Also, if they are real, could you > > > exchange contact information and then meet with them? > > > > When I said dreams are sort of like imagination, I meant more like > > > idle contemplation, where incidents follow the lead of the mind, which > > > is roaming. If you construct a dream, follow an agenda within it, do > > > things in a precisely thought out manner, then that is a level of > > > dreamland that I have never acheived. If you have, I think that's > > > great! > > > > Although I have learned to acheive some level of control in my dream > > > state, it is not nearly as precise as this. I have no real interest in > > > having my dreams resemble a totally conscious state, where I am > > > planning something, and then executing it. I enjoy idle contemplation, > > > and like to be led where my freely roaming mind wants to take me. In > > > other words, I don't want to work in my dreams, I want to be > > > entertained, take whats around the corner and deal with it > > > instinctively. > > > > I want my dreams to be free flowing and reactionary when required. > > > There is enough concentrated effort in my daily life, and I want no > > > part of that in my night life. I actually prefer dreams where there > > > are no other people to communicate with, or maybe just one that I am > > > sharing something special with. > > > > Lucid dreams may be something like OBE's but I experienced them before > > > sleep. Actually dealing with another person on a particular issue in a > > > dream state is something that I do not aspire to. Communication with > > > another human has never been part of my OBE's and doing so while > > > sleeping is also nothing that I gravitate toward. > > > > On Aug 15, 10:06 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You may have a different level of dreaming, you are analyzing dreams > > > > on the conscious rational level and therefore seem to allude to > > > > imagination. Of course we could sit and imagine but that is first > > > > level and not consistent with REM sleep modes. While it is true that > > > > many dreams are simple constructs of inner psychological fragments, > > > > there is another level of dreaming, one that takes me (one for sure) > > > > to other places where I interact with others in what seems to be a > > > > real time conscious event. Upon wakening I know that it was not just > > > > an ordinary dream. I can have 50 dreams in a month but few will be at > > > > the extreme level. > > > > A re-read of the op, specifically to the reference to Taggarts cosmos > > > > correlation and of course the Weiss reseach that Molly has added, the > > > > Einstein theories, the discoveries of numerous parallel universes, and > > > > myriad other cosmological phenomena may indeed allow for a more open > > > > view beyond the mundane physical sense. > > > > > On Aug 15, 5:13 am, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You may be partying in Japan, but to me, this is the same as imagining > > > > > you are on a tropical island when you are actually ensconsed in a snow > > > > > storm in the Arctic. The imagination is not constrained by time/space > > > > > and is free to put ones mind in any "place" it wants to be. Are you > > > > > really "there"? Not physically but, like spirit, imagination is > > > > > everywhere and does not reside in any place, although it seems to > > > > > originate from ones "mind". > > > > > > I believe dreams are similar to imagination, but the events of the > > > > > dream happen because of recent thought, maybe something you read or > > > > > saw on TV. They can also be reflective of an emotional experience, a > > > > > perceived threat, or whatever. To me, dreams are almost like > > > > > meditiation. Once the mind is free from conscious thought, it is freed > > > > > up to go in any direction it wants. This is when true fears or joy > > > > > freely express themselves, often mixed with a cornucopia of items that > > > > > are part of ones daily life. > > > > > > I learned long ago to initiate flying dreams by thinking about > > > > > certaiin things while lying in bed before sleep. This did not always > > > > > work, but then I learned to be able to pick up a dream if woken up > > > > > during it. I think this may be the kindergarten steps of lucid > > > > > dreaming. My OBE's were not lucid dreams because I was still awake, at > > > > > least I thought I was! > > > > > > When flying, I cruise around but am never really cognizant of being in > > > > > a specific location. I enjoy the thrill of flying and convincing > > > > > others that they too can fly if they trust their ability to do such. > > > > > When I am flying through the air, my body is lying in the bed. I do > > > > > not think of this as travelling. > > > > > > I guess I don't fully understand the "quantum dream travel concept". > > > > > It certainly isn't molecular transfer. According to the theory I think > > > > > you are talking about, would it not be possible to physically wake up > > > > > in Japan if one was actually travelling? Of course, this is impossible > > > > > so, from what I understand of your thread, I don't think we are > > > > > travelling at all. > > > > > > On Aug 14, 10:12 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > D, > > > > > > Appreciate your view, freedom from conscious thought. Dreams are > > > > > > definitely as much an outlet as they are an opportunity for > > > > > > introspection. I'm not sure that I would agree that they represent > > > > > > ones true inner feelings, not in the context of what I was > > > > > > presenting, > > > > > > the quantum travel aspect which shifts the "self" into another gear, > > > > > > another consciousness, possibly not your own consciousness. > > > > > > In the dream realm we could be anywhere or anyone at one time or > > > > > > another. I think dreams are more complex than that which you > > > > > > present. Considering the many types of dreams, it seems that simple > > > > > > diagnosis of dreams is not possible or at least not easily > > > > > > interpreted. For one, a premonitory dream would have nothing > > > > > > personally to do with the self if the dream is portraying an > > > > > > impending > > > > > > situation. If you had a dream of someone going into a club and > > > > > > setting off a bomb and then saw the news of it a few days later, > > > > > > what > > > > > > would the dream have to do with "your" inner feelings or state of > > > > > > well > > > > > > being? > > > > > > The crux of this thread really is about the parallel aspect of > > > > > > dreaming, the quantum travel in the dream state that is not possible > > > > > > in the conscious realm. > > > > > > You are dreaming, you are at a party in Japan, you are enjoying > > > > > > yourself, suddenly you wake up in your bed. Question, were you > > > > > > really > > > > > > there?, is the party still going on even though you left and in a > > > > > > quantum leap returned to the conscious world in which you physically > > > > > > live. However, again, was the person at the party in Japan really > > > > > > you > > > > > > or did you somehow "tune in" to someones consciousness at a party in > > > > > > Japan? > > > > > > In our conscious world we can't just say excuse me I think I'm going > > > > > > to go to a party in Japan, see you later. In the dream realm that > > > > > > is > > > > > > exactly what we may be able to do, travel. > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 5:50 am, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > To me, dreams represent the freedom of conscious thought, and are > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > sub-concious reflection of ones true inner feelings, brought to > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > unimpeded by physcial road blocks. I think they display the real > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > of the union of a persons emotional wellbeing. > > > > > > > > Although some of my dreams are similar to idle contemplation in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > they don't have a conceived structure, I consider the "mood" of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > dream to be more relevant than the details, which can as be > > > > > > > bizarre > > > > > > > and unworldly as the imagination allows. How one feels in the > > > > > > > dream > > > > > > > seems to be reflective of how a person generally feels. Is the > > > > > > > dream > > > > > > > happy, fearful, violent, etc.? > > > > > > > > As far as a dream being a connection with another planet or > > > > > > > parallel > > > > > > > universe is concerned, I have never felt this to be the case > > > > > > > myself. > > > > > > > OBE's are another story, but one isn't sleeping/dreaming during an > > > > > > > OBE. In a dream, one can be wherever their imagination takes > > > > > > > them, but > > > > > > > I rather doubt that it is actually travel. I have felt > > > > > > > disorientation, > > > > > > > or being in two places at once, but again, not in a dream. > > > > > > > Interesting > > > > > > > idea though. > > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 7:21 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The discussion on eternity, time and space sparked a memory of > > > > > > > > an old > > > > > > > > thread I started back in September 08, and considering the > > > > > > > > amount of > > > > > > > > new members I thought it would be relevant and revealing. It > > > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > the archives in ME have been swiped clean > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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