Would you like to share anything about your experience(s) and/or direct apprehension of emptiness? Is this possible? -Orn
Sure, I was an avid mediator for about 5 years so I got a lot of the meditative “experiences” out of the way i.e. bliss, disappearing breath/body, the large awareness, lucid dreaming, etc. So I helped organize a 10-day retreat for one of my teachers. I was reading Wei Wu Wei and Ramana and chatting with an insightful online friend a lot and he was helpful in challenging my conventional beliefs. The retreat was structured around the Anapanasati sutra, reportedly the Buddha's most taught meditation method. Anyway, I was after a more controlled stabilized jhana experience going into the retreat. On day three or so of the retreat, I was trying to practice the method but I was having way too much pain in my knees. So I tried everything I knew to ignore or overcome it and then finally I had enough. On the last sit of the night I just sat down any old way and thought, I don't give a f*** if my legs fall off I am not moving and suddenly all sensation (pain and pleasure) disappeared from my body and awareness. Because I had been defining myself in terms of those sensations for the last 3 days, e disappeared as well. It was like I literally past thru a veil but I got stuck in the veil and did not pass thru. e was gone for the rest of the night, the same thing happened 2 days later. I could have walked out of my life at that moment and never looked back. There was no self to be found in any of the aggregates. It was the most peaceful experience ever…beyond any cultivated bliss I had experienced previously and I was a pretty good meditator. I was not only having this experience while meditating but walking, sitting, standing, brushing my teeth, etc. So many things that were hard to understand were made known in an instant but the insights would just wash out as quickly as they arose. When I told my teacher about it he said that was step 13 in Anapanasati, the realization of impermanence. He said that was emptiness. It took some time to make sense of it, the implications of it. I knew something was different or a change took place in me. I was camped out in a tent in back of the facility. At sunset around our evening break, I would sit in a chair and watch birds acrobatically feed on insects. Well this bird, a little sparrow, comes and sits on my foot that was across my knee and looks at me up and down and flies off and tells her mate something in the tree above me. Then he comes down and sits on my foot and looks at me for like a minute, like…yeah he is not like all the other humans. - “What in your experience is permanent Orn? “ – e Specific states…again, words belie the experience. OK there is this subjective state that is permanent but we can’t talk about it? Do you think this state remains after death? Or is it dependent upon a living brain and body? - e, as much as I appreciate this sort of comparison and analysis of cannons, since the majority of Nagarjuna is lost and the words of Gautama were not penned that we know of until hundreds of years after his death, I equate this sort of study with similar Christian studies and only observe and/or play it on occasion. In general, I don’t hold much importance when it comes to texts. There are exceptions however this is not one of them. And, as I’ve said, I’m not as keen on the middle way as I am on mind only. The latter appears to be more accurate to me. In any case, we both know how unmonolithic Buddhism is. As said, while I appreciate scholarship and do study some, I do not embrace revelation by using any ‘holy-text’. I more adhere to what I find in practice. This is a long winded “I don’t know.” To your last two questions above and have no interest in concocting an ontology around it. - Orn I have “lived” with texts with competent teachers. Within that organic context of practice, texts come to life. So I really am not talking as an “academic”. Since you also have experience with Buddhism, it’s quicker to refer to a text then talk about personal experience (the krishnamurti thread comes to mind) for 500 words. - I read the entire link and remain perplexed as to your intention in posting it. - orn I said: “…I agree it is not thinking. However, I don’t know about this eternalism. Buddha was emphatic about the 2 extremes of eternalism and annihilationism to be avoided for the middle way to be found. He did not say they needed to be avoided to then find some other kind of uber eternalism.” You wrote: As I understand that tenet system, Gautama was talking about the GRASPING of those extremes. No? I simply posted the sutra instead of interpreting it. - When you said “ *Right but the way I see it, they just disappear, they don’t disappear into some large container called mind.” - e Yes, that is one type of experience. I find they return on occasion too. *** I’m more talking about Alaya Consciousness. The notion of a container is quite compatible with some Buddhist Schools. - orn Why do you think we humans continually need to posit permanence within an infinite sea of impermanence? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
