I have my doubts on free will--it gives you room to take directions of seeking out paths that could not be possibly good for you---back in the late 60's Buddha in meditation and seeking led to some doing drugs and alot of things and some died from this that was not true Buddhaist--and it was a free for all ---and Buddha what I saw was a constant seeking for oneself--it seem to me it was a never ending seaching self----In the Western part of the World it did not go as it did for the ones that was born into it....and what is the difference in someone believeing in Jesus and one that don't--Buddhaism if a very luring way because it is uhmm a peaceful sort of religon--but the ones that are under this religion has their problems too...I saw a show that this family kept their Grandmother underneath the bed after she died--and they calulated she might be buried in two years when the family could afford to bury her in a Buddhaist burial....the true Buddhaist is so much different than what has been in the Western World except the true ones that moved to the Western World--and they cannot pracatice truly because the laws do not permit
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > And there you have it. The path to free will is not giving a fuck. > This actually makes sense to me. Pretzeling myself for enlightenment > doesn't. I wish everyone could find what they were looking for. > > dj > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM, e <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Would you like to share anything about your experience(s) and/or > > direct apprehension of emptiness? Is this possible? -Orn > > > > Sure, I was an avid mediator for about 5 years so I got a lot of the > > meditative “experiences” out of the way i.e. bliss, disappearing > > breath/body, the large awareness, lucid dreaming, etc. So I helped > > organize a 10-day retreat for one of my teachers. I was reading Wei Wu > > Wei and Ramana and chatting with an insightful online friend a lot and > > he was helpful in challenging my conventional beliefs. The retreat was > > structured around the Anapanasati sutra, reportedly the Buddha's most > > taught meditation method. Anyway, I was after a more controlled > > stabilized jhana experience going into the retreat. On day three or so > > of the retreat, I was trying to practice the method but I was having > > way too much pain in my knees. So I tried everything I knew to ignore > > or overcome it and then finally I had enough. On the last sit of the > > night I just sat down any old way and thought, I don't give a f*** if > > my legs fall off I am not moving and suddenly all sensation (pain and > > pleasure) disappeared from my body and awareness. Because I had been > > defining myself in terms of those sensations for the last 3 days, e > > disappeared as well. It was like I literally past thru a veil but I > > got stuck in the veil and did not pass thru. e was gone for the rest > > of the night, the same thing happened 2 days later. I could have > > walked out of my life at that moment and never looked back. There was > > no self to be found in any of the aggregates. It was the most peaceful > > experience ever…beyond any cultivated bliss I had experienced > > previously and I was a pretty good meditator. I was not only having > > this experience while meditating but walking, sitting, standing, > > brushing my teeth, etc. So many things that were hard to understand > > were made known in an instant but the insights would just wash out as > > quickly as they arose. When I told my teacher about it he said that > > was step 13 in Anapanasati, the realization of impermanence. He said > > that was emptiness. It took some time to make sense of it, the > > implications of it. I knew something was different or a change took > > place in me. I was camped out in a tent in back of the facility. At > > sunset around our evening break, I would sit in a chair and watch > > birds acrobatically feed on insects. Well this bird, a little sparrow, > > comes and sits on my foot that was across my knee and looks at me up > > and down and flies off and tells her mate something in the tree above > > me. Then he comes down and sits on my foot and looks at me for like a > > minute, like…yeah he is not like all the other humans. > > > > - > > > > “What in your experience is permanent Orn? “ – e > > > > Specific states…again, words belie the experience. > > > > OK there is this subjective state that is permanent but we can’t talk > > about it? Do you think this state remains after death? Or is it > > dependent upon a living brain and body? > > > > - > > > > e, as much as I appreciate this sort of comparison and analysis of > > cannons, since the majority of Nagarjuna is lost and the words of > > Gautama were not penned that we know of until hundreds of years after > > his death, I equate this sort of study with similar Christian studies > > and only observe and/or play it on occasion. In general, I don’t hold > > much importance when it comes to texts. There are exceptions however > > this is not one of them. And, as I’ve said, I’m not as keen on the > > middle way as I am on mind only. The latter appears to be more > > accurate to me. In any case, we both know how unmonolithic Buddhism > > is. As said, while I appreciate scholarship and do study some, I do > > not embrace revelation by using any ‘holy-text’. I more adhere to > > what > > I find in practice. This is a long winded “I don’t know.” To your > > last > > two questions above and have no interest in concocting an ontology > > around it. - Orn > > > > I have “lived” with texts with competent teachers. Within that organic > > context of practice, texts come to life. So I really am not talking as > > an “academic”. Since you also have experience with Buddhism, it’s > > quicker to refer to a text then talk about personal experience (the > > krishnamurti thread comes to mind) for 500 words. > > > > - > > > > I read the entire link and remain perplexed as to your intention in > > posting it. - orn > > > > I said: “…I agree it is not thinking. However, I don’t know about > > this > > eternalism. Buddha was emphatic about the 2 extremes of eternalism > > and > > annihilationism to be avoided for the middle way to be found. He did > > not say they needed to be avoided to then find some other kind of > > uber > > eternalism.” > > > > You wrote: As I understand that tenet system, Gautama was talking > > about the > > GRASPING of those extremes. No? > > > > I simply posted the sutra instead of interpreting it. > > > > - > > > > When you said “ *Right but the way I see it, they just disappear, > > they > > don’t disappear into some large container called mind.” - e > > > > Yes, that is one type of experience. I find they return on occasion > > too. *** I’m more talking about Alaya Consciousness. The notion of a > > container is quite compatible with some Buddhist Schools. - orn > > > > Why do you think we humans continually need to posit permanence within > > an infinite sea of impermanence? > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
