And there you have it. The path to free will is not giving a fuck. This actually makes sense to me. Pretzeling myself for enlightenment doesn't. I wish everyone could find what they were looking for.
dj On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:14 PM, e <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Would you like to share anything about your experience(s) and/or > direct apprehension of emptiness? Is this possible? -Orn > > Sure, I was an avid mediator for about 5 years so I got a lot of the > meditative “experiences” out of the way i.e. bliss, disappearing > breath/body, the large awareness, lucid dreaming, etc. So I helped > organize a 10-day retreat for one of my teachers. I was reading Wei Wu > Wei and Ramana and chatting with an insightful online friend a lot and > he was helpful in challenging my conventional beliefs. The retreat was > structured around the Anapanasati sutra, reportedly the Buddha's most > taught meditation method. Anyway, I was after a more controlled > stabilized jhana experience going into the retreat. On day three or so > of the retreat, I was trying to practice the method but I was having > way too much pain in my knees. So I tried everything I knew to ignore > or overcome it and then finally I had enough. On the last sit of the > night I just sat down any old way and thought, I don't give a f*** if > my legs fall off I am not moving and suddenly all sensation (pain and > pleasure) disappeared from my body and awareness. Because I had been > defining myself in terms of those sensations for the last 3 days, e > disappeared as well. It was like I literally past thru a veil but I > got stuck in the veil and did not pass thru. e was gone for the rest > of the night, the same thing happened 2 days later. I could have > walked out of my life at that moment and never looked back. There was > no self to be found in any of the aggregates. It was the most peaceful > experience ever…beyond any cultivated bliss I had experienced > previously and I was a pretty good meditator. I was not only having > this experience while meditating but walking, sitting, standing, > brushing my teeth, etc. So many things that were hard to understand > were made known in an instant but the insights would just wash out as > quickly as they arose. When I told my teacher about it he said that > was step 13 in Anapanasati, the realization of impermanence. He said > that was emptiness. It took some time to make sense of it, the > implications of it. I knew something was different or a change took > place in me. I was camped out in a tent in back of the facility. At > sunset around our evening break, I would sit in a chair and watch > birds acrobatically feed on insects. Well this bird, a little sparrow, > comes and sits on my foot that was across my knee and looks at me up > and down and flies off and tells her mate something in the tree above > me. Then he comes down and sits on my foot and looks at me for like a > minute, like…yeah he is not like all the other humans. > > - > > “What in your experience is permanent Orn? “ – e > > Specific states…again, words belie the experience. > > OK there is this subjective state that is permanent but we can’t talk > about it? Do you think this state remains after death? Or is it > dependent upon a living brain and body? > > - > > e, as much as I appreciate this sort of comparison and analysis of > cannons, since the majority of Nagarjuna is lost and the words of > Gautama were not penned that we know of until hundreds of years after > his death, I equate this sort of study with similar Christian studies > and only observe and/or play it on occasion. In general, I don’t hold > much importance when it comes to texts. There are exceptions however > this is not one of them. And, as I’ve said, I’m not as keen on the > middle way as I am on mind only. The latter appears to be more > accurate to me. In any case, we both know how unmonolithic Buddhism > is. As said, while I appreciate scholarship and do study some, I do > not embrace revelation by using any ‘holy-text’. I more adhere to > what > I find in practice. This is a long winded “I don’t know.” To your > last > two questions above and have no interest in concocting an ontology > around it. - Orn > > I have “lived” with texts with competent teachers. Within that organic > context of practice, texts come to life. So I really am not talking as > an “academic”. Since you also have experience with Buddhism, it’s > quicker to refer to a text then talk about personal experience (the > krishnamurti thread comes to mind) for 500 words. > > - > > I read the entire link and remain perplexed as to your intention in > posting it. - orn > > I said: “…I agree it is not thinking. However, I don’t know about > this > eternalism. Buddha was emphatic about the 2 extremes of eternalism > and > annihilationism to be avoided for the middle way to be found. He did > not say they needed to be avoided to then find some other kind of > uber > eternalism.” > > You wrote: As I understand that tenet system, Gautama was talking > about the > GRASPING of those extremes. No? > > I simply posted the sutra instead of interpreting it. > > - > > When you said “ *Right but the way I see it, they just disappear, > they > don’t disappear into some large container called mind.” - e > > Yes, that is one type of experience. I find they return on occasion > too. *** I’m more talking about Alaya Consciousness. The notion of a > container is quite compatible with some Buddhist Schools. - orn > > Why do you think we humans continually need to posit permanence within > an infinite sea of impermanence? > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
