Stories are only that, testimonials without any possibility of verification eg: extraterrestrial abductions. <SD
Yes, that is the case for most all of us now Slip. And, I still feel strongly that my response was accurate and appropriate to your unsubstantiated claim that “…no one has ever come back to tell us anything about it.” Key word being "Claim" to know. -<SD Yes, I chose that term quite carefully Slip knowing full well that there are countless other skeptics reading these postings. Personally, I have no doubt at all that Gautama knew the truth of his last words nor do I doubt them either. Of course, in context I/we were possibly referring to other lives here. In one sense, I ‘know’ the full eternity of the now including any apparent beginnings/origins as well as the telos…so in this way know the truth of the bardo and beyond. Also, much of my personal practice does include rituals, meditations and contemplations on such things so the act of dying even though not experienced directly this time is not an entire stranger. I don't view humanity as a pool, humans are not completely integrated as pool. Humans can be segregated by many aspects whereas a pool of water would not have that aspect, an ability to separate and establish identities. -<SD Lack of view noted Slip. Yet, in one sense, since *everyone* (let alone everything etc.) is but a part of one’s consciousness, the water analogy that is appropriate. It is often used for mind stuff as well as an analogy for spirit. One scientific Socratic question is: If one takes a cup of water and pours it into the ocean and waits for the water to be evenly dispersed, and then takes another cup of water from the ocean, how much of the original one is present? Of course, this has been calculated by scientists however, the analogy may be instructive. > “What determines who gets what from the soul pool?” – SD > Again, ‘we all’ have access to it all all of the time. Whether we can > remove the necessary obfuscations or not in order to apprehend this or > not is the issue here. -OM Well that is a matter of opinion without actual basis, life is our reality not our theories. -<SD While I do understand and agree with your intention here Slip…that what we think is reality IS our reality/life…I would further agree that theories are but mind stuff too, the term ‘opinion’ in this context appears to be a little harsh to me. I say this in that when analyzed, ‘we’ are in direct contact with all ‘souls/pools’ at all times whether such unity is consciously apprehended or not. One need not take this on faith either so don’t worry about mustering a defense… I’m not evangelical other than to suggest an expansion of view…perhaps a glance at my newer topic ‘Knowledge’ will point some of the way here. On Jan 14, 12:07 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > “Is death just a marker between lives? Possibly and for me most > > likely, no one has ever come back to tell us anything about it.” – SD > > > This is not quite the case unless one is merely saying that they > > haven’t heard of such reports…many of which do exist- OM > > Stories are only that, testimonials without any possibility of > verification eg: extraterrestrial abductions. <SD > > > > > “Is there a Karma that carries from one life to the next? I would > > think that if the soul retains it's accumulated properties then it > > might also retain the aspects of retribution.” – SD > > > Many hold that some aspect does carry over. In fact, Karma alone is > > often seen as the actual cause of rebirth. > > See:http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell07.htm-OM > > Could be, the karma leaving a destiny or duty unfulfilled and > requiring a rebirth. <SD > > > > > “Upon new life in the new physical frame is there a clean slate with > > which to develop? I often wonder why some people are born into > > extreme poverty and pain while other live wonderful lives.” – SD > > > While the western notion of tabula rasa does exist, it is accurate in > > that it applies to “…the epistemological thesis that individuals are > > born without built-in mental content and that their knowledge comes > > from experience and perception.” > > -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa-OM > > I should clarify the clean slate portion, basically my intent is > pointing out that within the rebirth process the clean slate is for > the projections forward while retention of all previous experiences > are in somewhat of an underlying state. Possibly emerging in dream > states and deja vu moments. <SD > > > > > Is there “…any significance to life between birth and death.”? Many > > would say in the current context, everything therein is > > ‘significant’. “I believe that everyone has a soul unique to their self. > > To think > > that souls are just random formations of different lives would imply > > that upon death our soul becomes part of a huge soul pool or becomes > > part of the zero point field.” – SD > > > Again, looking to those who claim to know, and in particular to > > Gautama’s last words, “Now, monks, I declare to you: all elements of > > personality are subject to decay. Strive on untiringly!” > > -http://orias.berkeley.edu/visuals/buddha/life.html -OM > > Key word being "Claim" to know. -<SD > > > > > “How could we retain soul integrity if we die and our soul is > > dispersed into a pool?” – SD > > > The same way we retain individuation ‘integrity’ while living within > > the pool of humanity. -OM > > I don't view humanity as a pool, humans are not completely integrated > as pool. Humans can be segregated by many aspects whereas a pool of > water would not have that aspect, an ability to separate and establish > identities. -<SD > > > > > “What determines who gets what from the soul pool?” – SD > > > Again, ‘we all’ have access to it all all of the time. Whether we can > > remove the necessary obfuscations or not in order to apprehend this or > > not is the issue here. -OM > > Well that is a matter of opinion without actual basis, life is our > reality not our theories. -<SD > > > > > > > On Jan 14, 8:54 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ed; > > > A matter of choice at what point and where does one make the choice. > > > Acquisition of experience that is causal to ascension might be and > > > obverse be the falling from grace. The entry into this realm seems > > > locked in, tied down and as you say subject to the laws, challenges > > > and opportunities that become the playing field of success or failure > > > according to and if there are actual adherents to be applied. I would > > > think that if there exists souls that they would all have a uniformity > > > as far as choice or not and if not who/what decides such things. > > > I believe that some people have lived past lives but not all as some > > > people are Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc., > > > while others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are easily > > > identifiable. I would not consider reincarnation in the sense that > > > our soul returns in the form of a different species but contend the > > > soul returns as another human being. A human soul does not return as > > > a cow in my opinion. I think we retain life experiences within our > > > soul and think life might be occurring simultaneously on different > > > planes and further that there is a level at which time itself is of no > > > consequence. The concept of old soul and new soul has been a > > > contentious subject for my wife and I as she is deeply rooted in > > > Catholicism and therefore won't accept it other than as a ridiculous > > > notion. According to her Catholic faith, death is the "complete and > > > final separation of the soul from the body". However the Vatican has > > > conceded that diagnosing death is a subject for medicine, not the > > > Church. Pope Pius XII questioned whether doctors might be "continuing > > > the resuscitation process, despite the fact that the soul may already > > > have left the body." > > > Others believe that life remains intact as long as the heart is > > > beating and others still contend that the mind and body are one so > > > being brain dead has not impact on death itself. It seems that belief > > > in certain aspects of death may give credence to what some know as > > > Heaven and the immortality of the soul. For atheists, pantheists, > > > materialists and rationalists there would be no question and > > > conversation of such idea would be moot. So what meaning does death > > > have to us as we are living? Perhaps it is a reminder that life is > > > temporary and that we should pay heed to what lies ahead without > > > paying as much attention to amassing materialistic treasures over > > > spiritual values. Is death just a marker between lives? Possibly > > > and for me most likely, no one has ever come back to tell us anything > > > about it. Is there a Karma that carries from one life to the next? I > > > would think that if the soul retains it's accumulated properties then > > > it might also retain the aspects of retribution. Upon new life in the > > > new physical frame is there a clean slate with which to develop? I > > > often wonder why some people are born into extreme poverty and pain > > > while other live wonderful lives. While both will have to commit to > > > death the interim of life seems to have significance in the fact that > > > maybe there is for them a lesson to be learned. I would also have to > > > examine why it is that a person is born and dies within hours of > > > living if there is any significance to life between birth and death. I > > > believe that everyone has a soul unique to their self. To think that > > > souls are just random formations of different lives would imply that > > > upon death our soul becomes part of a huge soul pool or becomes part > > > of the zero point field. How could we retain soul integrity if we die > > > and our soul is dispersed into a pool? I would rather think my life > > > reflects all the lives I have lived before, not that my life is > > > fractions of Attila the Hun and King Herod etc. What determines who > > > gets what from the soul pool? People are all so different and there > > > is no uniformity, obviously I didn't get any Philo Farnsworth. What > > > would govern the outcome of future lives? Is there a relation to the > > > gene pool in how a person returns to live again? Possibly so. If a > > > person has the same genetic makeup as the great grandfather, is that > > > person partially living the life of the great grandfather, in thought > > > and action? > > > Is there a correlation? > > > > On Jan 14, 2:02 am, edward mason <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Perhaps the Earth-journey is a matter of choice which provides > > > > experiences for ascensions and/or developments( Experience ) that > > > > holds some special honor but can be acquired no other way. Once that > > > > soul inters this realm of existence, becoming subject to the > > > > controlling laws which acts kind of like a magnet to keep that soul in > > > > the cycle of circumference until it master the Laws. This would not > > > > imply that every soul here on earth is here as a mater of choice > > > > either, as some are sure to assume. > > > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Possibly it is time for a review of the existence of a soul or not. > > > > > Those souls that are imbued with favoritism of sorts, not exactly the > > > > > terminology, and others who are cursed. > > > > > Let's say that previous soul enhancements lend to current living > > > > > phenomena. > > > > > Other questions arise, such as earth being a proving ground or a trial > > > > > period, even a place for people to suffer damnation, people have lived > > > > > horrible lives and others have suffered horrible deaths. > > > > > Who knows for sure, not eye saith the blind man. > > > > > Any variations are as well valid hypothesis. > > > > > > On Jan 13, 3:33 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > > > >> I am not making any statement about causation. The fact is that > > > > >> some people are luckier than others -- both ways. I don't know what > > > > >> to make of it. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > > >> To: [email protected] > > > > >> Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 4:13 pm > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Mind's Eye] Re: Karma > > > > > >> Yes. And it does appear that the sun orbits our planet, rising in > > > > >> the east, and setting in the west. > > > > > >> Correlation != causation. > > > > > >> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Yet it does appear as if some people, and places either have good > > > > >> or bad luck in greater proportions than others. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: frantheman <[email protected]> > > > > >> To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > > > >> Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 1:40 pm > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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