“Many Public Schools have been turning out idiots, kids that can't
read
or read at a poor level. Kids can enhance their socialization skills
in extra curricular activities, sports events and other social
functions. Home schooled children are not isolated prisoners
confined
to parental control.” – SD
I have no doubt about the reading ability or lack thereof of some kids…
whether the cause is innate, a lack of ability, ADD caused, diet
caused or just due to lack of interest…whether ‘taught’ in public,
private or ‘home’ schools. In fact, I am a good example of a failed
experiment in a teaching method for both reading and spelling from
back in the 40s and 50s. So, first hand, I know the result. However, I
do not attribute this issue to a nonsectarian education vs a sectarian
one nor do I see any reason to do so…unless perhaps the recent trend
in a lack of willingness to support the general welfare.
So yet again, the issues are much more complex than many wish to see.
Simplistic comments like Slip’s first sentence while pointing towards
a possible fact (difficult to tell its veracity), in truth says little
to nothing about cause/effect…just unexamined opinion. And, I agree
about socialization skills being available in almost any place and/or
type of interaction. However, yet again, isolating kids from public
contact with a wider range of people than what is ‘normal’ for the
fundamentalist family seems to have obvious consequences.
At first, I wasn’t sure of the reason for the links provided…in fact,
I’m still not positive. However, I’m glad they were given. If
anything, they support my aversion to such treatment of kids…similar
to the current day view against imposing faith healing on kids is seen
as being abuse. Both are founded on non-secular tenets and all too
often result in the sort of fanaticism that has been railed against
here at ME by many, Slip included. A simple quote from one of the
links, from one Tim Echols may be instructive:
“…Spiritually, TeenPact teaches Biblical principles of government and
family, going hand-in-hand with the values of families who
participate. It is very important that our young people see that
spiritual revival is the answer to America's problems - not politics.
We teach students that every Christian must pray and vote according to
Biblical principles….” -http://www.teenpact.com/
If anything, this sort of thinking is divisive rather than unifying.
And, with little imagination the flaws in such an approach can be
seen. Further, the links shared along with other resources I’ve
examined over the years expose the litigious and sectarian view(s) not
only imbedded within such groups but that are at the very core of the
entire movement.
No, most kids are not isolated prisoners, true. However, most kids who
are forced into sectarian ‘education’, being too naïve to know better
let alone wise enough, powerful enough or savvy enough to fight
parental control in such situations, I suggest are being brainwashed
in an even more disastrous way than those who are educated by the
state…at least here in the USA. And we aren’t even talking about what
sort of health care they may be receiving without public scrutiny or
support nor other associated issues yet. The term Madrasah comes to
mind.
On Feb 2, 1:28 am, Slip Disc<[email protected]> wrote:
http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp
http://www.hslda.org/legislation/state/default.asp
http://www.hslda.org/orgs/default.asp
Many Public Schools have been turning out idiots, kids that can't read
or read at a poor level. Kids can enhance their socialization skills
in extra curricular activities, sports events and other social
functions. Home schooled children are not isolated prisoners confined
to parental control.
On Feb 1, 9:52 pm, ornamentalmind<[email protected]> wrote:
“…Any thoughts?” – fran
Yes fran…I have a few although don’t claim lucidity for this topic.
First, my gut as the US started to fully embrace what euphemistically
is called ‘home schooling’ said that it was a mistake. In other
words, without much analysis, my intuition is against it. There are a
few thoughts wafting across my mind that says parents should
absolutely have the right to organize and deliver the education for
their own children especially when there is concern about the bias
being imposed by a governmentally run educational system. Yet, should
such parents have some sort of standardized education and teaching
ability themselves? It would seem appropriate too. Yet, if so, who
would make such a determination…the same government they fear for
whatever reason? In the specific case, being prejudiced against
fundamentalism in general and most manifestations of Christianity in
particular, I believe that the children are being abused in that they
will be handed beliefs in a sort of nepotism …just reinforcing
whatever blind beliefs and/or ignorance the specific family has.
Whereas, in a public educational environment, since most that I am
familiar with are influenced by all aspects of society from the PTA to
governmental directives, resulting in a more homogeneous and well
rounded set of instructions. Of course, in most cases, I would guess
that there will be little instruction in how to think or use logic so
what we are talking about in general is training, right? So, what sort
of information and abilities should be imparted? I’m sure many have
their own views. I’m not sure about it myself. As a kid, it all seemed
natural …the topics were well rounded and included everything from the
arts and civics to local, state, country and world history to
languages and maths and…well…mostly standard stuff. Although these
days in the US, as I understand it, there is precious little imparted
about civics let alone about music, art and dance. Even physical
education seems to be declining …perhaps. In all cases, for a societal
input and support for the general good when it comes to education,
funding is needed. Today, too many of the rich wish to keep their
money for personal usage rather than for the common good…as I see it.
Whew!...guess my soap box came out…I’ll take a breath.
Overall, in my youth, there were both public schools and religious
schools. Parents had a choice between them and apparently didn’t need
to home school. I do understand that for a long time there have been
people who assign a higher value to what they see as god’s law,
adoration and instruction than is assigned to that of the state.
Somehow, I don’t remember this being a problem for the first few
decades of my life…all seemed to go along fairly well. Somehow, by no
accident I’s posit, there has been an increase in religious influence
when it comes to what used to be nonsectarian issues, education
included. Of course, I just may have been ignorant.
Overall, in Germany and the US…I’d personally prefer kids to receive a
good, well rounded and well funded education and do away with home
schooling. My guess is that if this were done in even more
fundamentalist and religious societies/countries, there would be a
little less polarization…not sure, just a guess again.
Of course, we haven’t discussed other options…and I’m sure there are
ME members with ‘em….Neil comes to mind. Personally, I’d add a little
of the Socratic method to education…more even than testing covers.
Well, this is most likely worth what you pay for it!....you asked…I
answered.
On Feb 1, 9:52 am, frantheman<[email protected]> wrote:
A German family has been given political asylum in the US because of
their refusal to send their children to school in Germany and the
subsequent, according to the US judge granting the application, "well
founded fear of persecution."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,674492,00.html
Germany does not allow home schooling. The article in "der Spiegel"
explains: "Mandatory school attendance is based on "the idea that
group learning in school also helps develop social skills," says
Martina Elschenbroich, an expert on education law with the Culture
Minister Conference, an assembly that brings together education
ministers from Germany's 16 states. Children learn how to interact
with people who hold different views, which serves as the basis of a
democratic society, says Elschenbroich." The German position has been
upheld by the European Court of Human Rights in 2006.
I am aware that the radical libertarian tradition in the US (and the
impossibility of mandatory school attendance for many chidren in the
legendary frontier days of the 19th. Century) gives home-schooling a
certain cachet. On the other hand, it seems to me that it harbours
great dangers in giving all kinds of - sorry to be so blunt - nuts the
chance to indocrinate their children with rubbish.
Any thoughts?
Francis- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
