On 15 Feb, 06:50, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > Well! Even if we disagree, I like the way you think. Nothing wrong > with defending what you have thought through so thoroughly. > > I like your idea of M-theory to explain the 7 heavens above the 4 we > know and experience. i have had similar thoughts myself before. > > I guess if a higher entity explained such sublte ideas to people whoi > simply did not have the vocabulary to cope with it, it might come out > a bit primitive. > As an agnostic, I don't deny a creator, but refuse to bow to primitive > notions, in my opinion, wholy written by men, about what such a > creator would want from us. >
That's the trickiest thing. PROVING that the Qur'an really was inspired by God. Whilst, of course, it says it is, is one piece of evidence, but hardly conclusive considering the authors of the Old Testament. But a closer look at the language employed IN it may reveal far more than the obvious meaning. And I'm not talking about some kind of 'Bible Code' where almost anything can be 'discovered'; but, an objective code, say, based on the numerical values of the words and whether or not THEY indicate something meaningful. As far as I know, there has been no gematrical exegesis done on the Qur'an. It's on my 'hit list' of stidies to be done, but I need to get together with people who know the Arabic far better than I do. My gematria (getting numbers from letters and vice versa) skills are fine with respect to Hebrew, but not so with Arabic. Soon, I'll be starting a post that deals with the correspondences between language and matter. This will be a start to the Qur'anic Gematria Project, as I suspect that, if there are gematric correspondences of objective validity, it will be in that certain words will find themselves mapped to certain elements and sentences to molcules. But, for the moment, it's only a concept I've had within the last 14 hours. I'll send that post soon!! > The universe is far too subtle and mysterious to deny at least the > possibility of a creator, even if such a creator is totally > indifferent to our daily strivings for survival. > > On Feb 12, 3:16 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 10 Feb, 14:07, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Feb 10, 2:50 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 10 Feb, 05:31, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I thought you were trying to impugn claims made by the God of Abraham > > > > that could be (or have been) disproven by science. The God of Abraham > > > > Himself impugned the New and Old Testaments in the Qur'an. So, > > > > basically, you were agreeing WITH the God of Abraham that those > > > > previous books have been tampered with/corrupted in some way. The > > > > whole purpose OF the Qur'an was to set the record straight. And the > > > > claims made IN it (that is, those of scientific value) have only been > > > > supported by scienctific findings, later. I don't blame you for not > > > > trying to impugn the Qur'an; it's nigh on impossible. > > > > Fine then, you're on > > > > Quran. 22:65 > > > > Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in > > > the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He > > > withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His > > > permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. > > > > So, the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause > > > serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That > > > certainly is scientific nonsense. > > > > Q. 35:41 > > > > Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the earth LEST THEY MOVE away > > > from their places, and if they were TO MOVE away from their places, > > > there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever > > > Most Forbearing, Oft Forgiving. > > > > So, the heavens and earth are stationary? > > > Remember Einstein? Only when an object is in free fall is it > > motionless with respect to relativity. The grasp, is gravity. And > > the means of that grasp, at leat in my theory, is the fact that our > > space-time expands THROUGH the graviton. Which is why we cannot > > detect it. We're IN it. And THAT is how Allah grasps both the > > heavens (ther Calabi-Yau space) and the Earth (space-time). It is > > done through geometry. This passage is very indicative of both > > special relativity and M-Theory. 'Their places' alludes to their > > locations with respect to one another. This isn't talking about the > > sky and the surface of the Earrh, it's talking about the relationship > > between the Calabi-Yau space (heaven) and our 4-D space-time (Earth). > > > > One Muslim website candidly admits that the heavens and earth are in > > > fact stationary according to the Quran: > > > > Question: > > > ASSALAM-O-ALAIKUM, WHAT IS THE RULING OF SHARIA ON THE MOVEMENT OF > > > EARTH. > > > GIVE EXPLANATION. > > > > Answer: > > > According to the teaching of Quran and Hadith, the sky and earth ARE > > > STATIONARY and planets rotate. It is the sun that moves around the > > > earth WHILE THE EARTH DOES NOT MOVE AROUND THE SUN. > > > Which is, whilst historically interesting and Ptolemaic, is of no real > > bearing here. Western Science through Ptolemy held the very same > > thing. The Qur'an was written before Copernicus, so the > > interpretations of the people will be in keeping with THEIR knowledge > > not the knowledge of God. I can interpret the same text in terms of > > String Theory and Special Relativity. They couldn't. > > > > Q. 71:15-20 > > > > Have you not regarded how God created seven heavens one upon another, > > > and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp? > > > > Oh really? > > > Are you familiar with M-Theory? beyond our 4-D space-time, M-Theory > > holds that there are 7 other dimensions that are purely spatial, i.e., > > eternal. Now, what would YOU call eternal space? Heaven isn't a bad > > term. Of course, there are, in Islamic cosmolgy, 7 Hells, as well. > > But this can be an effect of symmetry. And symmetries are what > > resolves all forces into one. The fact that only some places are > > visble to us, is irrelevant. I can't see Rome from London, but it > > doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. > > > > Q. 78:6-7 > > > > Have WE not made the earth AS A BED, And the mountains AS PEGS? > > > Simple analogy. What are the Arabic terms used and from what verb- > > stems do they derive? Once we know that, we can look at the other > > tenses and conjugations of the original verb to see what other > > allusions are being made here. > > > > One of many which suggests that the earth is flat > > > > From the Muslim traditions > > > > Here are the traditions which renowned Muslim historian al-Tabari > > > transmitted regarding the meaning of surah 68:1. He basically repeats > > > what Ibn Kathir wrote. > > > It would have been good if you'd quoted 68:1. Here it is: > > > Nun. By the Pen and the (Record) which (men) write, > > > Now the 'Nun' at the beginning is only a single character, the letter > > Nun. In English it would be "n". There have been varous attempts to > > describe the meanings of the single letters or groups of letters that > > appear at the beginning of some surahs, there's no need to go into it > > here. Firstly, 'the Pen', is an alluson to the word of God. That is, > > the means through which God creates--His WORD. The Record is usually > > an allusion (in MY interpretation) to the space-time continnum, which > > stands as a permanent record of everything that exists throughout all > > space and time. > > > > Someone might say: If it is as you have described, namely, that God > > > created the earth before the heaven, then what is the meaning of the > > > statement of Ibn ‘Abbas told all of you by Wasil b. ‘Abd al-A‘la al- > > > Asadi- Muhammad b. Fudayl- al-A‘mash- Abu Zabyan- Ibn ‘Abbas: The > > > first thing God created is the Pen. God then said to it: Write!, > > > whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write, my lord! God replied: > > > Write what is predestined! > > >He continued: And the Pen proceeded to > > > (write) whatever is predestined and gong to be to the Coming of the > > > Hour. God then lifted up the water vapor and split the heavens off > > > from it. > > > Here is an allusion. The Arabic used at the time had no words for > > 'matter' and 'anti-matter', as we know them today. During the period > > of 'inflation', these two (matter and anti-matter) acted as fluids > > (thus the words pointing towards water and vapour, which are both > > 'fluid') becames separated (also, the heavens[the Calabi-Yau > > dimensions] would have been compactified at this point, and their > > compactification is another form of separation.). Science bears this > > out but cannot, yet, explain how. We know that, somehow, the anti- > > matter 'went away'. But no one knows where or how, much less why. > > Shall I tell you? > > > The antimatter was removed by God in order to form the outer shell of > > the medium through which space-time expands. This shell was moved FAR > > away from the expanding space-time, but acts as a final boundary, > > outside of which there is NOTHING. This boundary is called (in the > > Qur'an) 'the Face of God', much like a cube has 6 faces. This is WHY > > space-time expands, as the opposing charge of the anti-matter shell > > attracts it. In fact, latest findings seem to suggest that the rate > > of space-time's expansion is increasing. This would be expected, if > > we were, finally, approaching that boundary. Ever put two magnets > > together where their opposite poles are towards one another? As you > > move them closer and closer, there's a point at which the two are > > drawn together VERY quickly. In the case of a space-time consisting > > primarily of matter and an outer shell to the medium through which > > that expands being made of anti-matter, this collision would be > > completely catastrophic to the entire universe. And NOW you know the > > physics behind Judgement Day. If space-time is already expanding at a > > faster rate than it was just 100 years ago, that's HIGHLY indicative > > that Judgement Day is NOT that far off. > > > >Then God created THE FISH (nun), AND THE EARTH WAS SPREAD OUT > > > UPON ITS BACK. > > >The fish became agitated, with the result that the > > > earth was shaken up. > > >It was steadied BY MEANS OF THE MOUNTAINS, for > > > they indeed proudly (tower) over the earth. > > > Here's where the explanation of al-Tabari REALLY breaks down. I won't > > continue to defend his interpretation other than to say that, for his > > time and knowing his experience and knowledge of Special Relativity > > and String Theory, what else would he say? He was a product of his > > time. > > > > This is all far too lengthy to quote extensively but in summary > > > Thank God. I wouldn't have bothered. The summary below is so far > > from the facts as to be risible. > > > > Allah has spread out or flattened the earth on the back of a great > > > fish (or whale). > > > Allah created mountains to keep the earth from shaking due to the > > > movement of the fish. > > > The fish is floating in some extra-terrestrial water. > > > The water is upon a rock. > > > This rock is on the back of an angel. > > > The angel himself is standing upon a rock. > > > This other rock is supported by wind which is neither in the heavens > > > nor the earth! > > > Other traditions say that the great fish is underneath the seventh > > > earth. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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