I look foward to reading it. On Feb 16, 3:19 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 15 Feb, 06:50, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Well! Even if we disagree, I like the way you think. Nothing wrong > > with defending what you have thought through so thoroughly. > > > I like your idea of M-theory to explain the 7 heavens above the 4 we > > know and experience. i have had similar thoughts myself before. > > > I guess if a higher entity explained such sublte ideas to people whoi > > simply did not have the vocabulary to cope with it, it might come out > > a bit primitive. > > As an agnostic, I don't deny a creator, but refuse to bow to primitive > > notions, in my opinion, wholy written by men, about what such a > > creator would want from us. > > That's the trickiest thing. PROVING that the Qur'an really was > inspired by God. Whilst, of course, it says it is, is one piece of > evidence, but hardly conclusive considering the authors of the Old > Testament. But a closer look at the language employed IN it may > reveal far more than the obvious meaning. And I'm not talking about > some kind of 'Bible Code' where almost anything can be 'discovered'; > but, an objective code, say, based on the numerical values of the > words and whether or not THEY indicate something meaningful. As far > as I know, there has been no gematrical exegesis done on the Qur'an. > It's on my 'hit list' of stidies to be done, but I need to get > together with people who know the Arabic far better than I do. My > gematria (getting numbers from letters and vice versa) skills are fine > with respect to Hebrew, but not so with Arabic. Soon, I'll be > starting a post that deals with the correspondences between language > and matter. This will be a start to the Qur'anic Gematria Project, as > I suspect that, if there are gematric correspondences of objective > validity, it will be in that certain words will find themselves mapped > to certain elements and sentences to molcules. But, for the moment, > it's only a concept I've had within the last 14 hours. I'll send that > post soon!! > > > > > The universe is far too subtle and mysterious to deny at least the > > possibility of a creator, even if such a creator is totally > > indifferent to our daily strivings for survival. > > > On Feb 12, 3:16 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 10 Feb, 14:07, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Feb 10, 2:50 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 10 Feb, 05:31, Errol <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I thought you were trying to impugn claims made by the God of Abraham > > > > > that could be (or have been) disproven by science. The God of Abraham > > > > > Himself impugned the New and Old Testaments in the Qur'an. So, > > > > > basically, you were agreeing WITH the God of Abraham that those > > > > > previous books have been tampered with/corrupted in some way. The > > > > > whole purpose OF the Qur'an was to set the record straight. And the > > > > > claims made IN it (that is, those of scientific value) have only been > > > > > supported by scienctific findings, later. I don't blame you for not > > > > > trying to impugn the Qur'an; it's nigh on impossible. > > > > > Fine then, you're on > > > > > Quran. 22:65 > > > > > Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in > > > > the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He > > > > withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His > > > > permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. > > > > > So, the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause > > > > serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That > > > > certainly is scientific nonsense. > > > > > Q. 35:41 > > > > > Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the earth LEST THEY MOVE away > > > > from their places, and if they were TO MOVE away from their places, > > > > there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever > > > > Most Forbearing, Oft Forgiving. > > > > > So, the heavens and earth are stationary? > > > > Remember Einstein? Only when an object is in free fall is it > > > motionless with respect to relativity. The grasp, is gravity. And > > > the means of that grasp, at leat in my theory, is the fact that our > > > space-time expands THROUGH the graviton. Which is why we cannot > > > detect it. We're IN it. And THAT is how Allah grasps both the > > > heavens (ther Calabi-Yau space) and the Earth (space-time). It is > > > done through geometry. This passage is very indicative of both > > > special relativity and M-Theory. 'Their places' alludes to their > > > locations with respect to one another. This isn't talking about the > > > sky and the surface of the Earrh, it's talking about the relationship > > > between the Calabi-Yau space (heaven) and our 4-D space-time (Earth). > > > > > One Muslim website candidly admits that the heavens and earth are in > > > > fact stationary according to the Quran: > > > > > Question: > > > > ASSALAM-O-ALAIKUM, WHAT IS THE RULING OF SHARIA ON THE MOVEMENT OF > > > > EARTH. > > > > GIVE EXPLANATION. > > > > > Answer: > > > > According to the teaching of Quran and Hadith, the sky and earth ARE > > > > STATIONARY and planets rotate. It is the sun that moves around the > > > > earth WHILE THE EARTH DOES NOT MOVE AROUND THE SUN. > > > > Which is, whilst historically interesting and Ptolemaic, is of no real > > > bearing here. Western Science through Ptolemy held the very same > > > thing. The Qur'an was written before Copernicus, so the > > > interpretations of the people will be in keeping with THEIR knowledge > > > not the knowledge of God. I can interpret the same text in terms of > > > String Theory and Special Relativity. They couldn't. > > > > > Q. 71:15-20 > > > > > Have you not regarded how God created seven heavens one upon another, > > > > and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp? > > > > > Oh really? > > > > Are you familiar with M-Theory? beyond our 4-D space-time, M-Theory > > > holds that there are 7 other dimensions that are purely spatial, i.e., > > > eternal. Now, what would YOU call eternal space? Heaven isn't a bad > > > term. Of course, there are, in Islamic cosmolgy, 7 Hells, as well. > > > But this can be an effect of symmetry. And symmetries are what > > > resolves all forces into one. The fact that only some places are > > > visble to us, is irrelevant. I can't see Rome from London, but it > > > doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. > > > > > Q. 78:6-7 > > > > > Have WE not made the earth AS A BED, And the mountains AS PEGS? > > > > Simple analogy. What are the Arabic terms used and from what verb- > > > stems do they derive? Once we know that, we can look at the other > > > tenses and conjugations of the original verb to see what other > > > allusions are being made here. > > > > > One of many which suggests that the earth is flat > > > > > From the Muslim traditions > > > > > Here are the traditions which renowned Muslim historian al-Tabari > > > > transmitted regarding the meaning of surah 68:1. He basically repeats > > > > what Ibn Kathir wrote. > > > > It would have been good if you'd quoted 68:1. Here it is: > > > > Nun. By the Pen and the (Record) which (men) write, > > > > Now the 'Nun' at the beginning is only a single character, the letter > > > Nun. In English it would be "n". There have been varous attempts to > > > describe the meanings of the single letters or groups of letters that > > > appear at the beginning of some surahs, there's no need to go into it > > > here. Firstly, 'the Pen', is an alluson to the word of God. That is, > > > the means through which God creates--His WORD. The Record is usually > > > an allusion (in MY interpretation) to the space-time continnum, which > > > stands as a permanent record of everything that exists throughout all > > > space and time. > > > > > Someone might say: If it is as you have described, namely, that God > > > > created the earth before the heaven, then what is the meaning of the > > > > statement of Ibn ‘Abbas told all of you by Wasil b. ‘Abd al-A‘la al- > > > > Asadi- Muhammad b. Fudayl- al-A‘mash- Abu Zabyan- Ibn ‘Abbas: The > > > > first thing God created is the Pen. God then said to it: Write!, > > > > whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write, my lord! God replied: > > > > Write what is predestined! > > > >He continued: And the Pen proceeded to > > > > (write) whatever is predestined and gong to be to the Coming of the > > > > Hour. God then lifted up the water vapor and split the heavens off > > > > from it. > > > > Here is an allusion. The Arabic used at the time had no words for > > > 'matter' and 'anti-matter', as we know them today. During the period > > > of 'inflation', these two (matter and anti-matter) acted as fluids > > > (thus the words pointing towards water and vapour, which are both > > > 'fluid') becames separated (also, the heavens[the Calabi-Yau > > > dimensions] would have been compactified at this point, and their > > > compactification is another form of separation.). Science bears this > > > out but cannot, yet, explain how. We know that, somehow, the anti- > > > matter 'went away'. But no one knows where or how, much less why. > > > Shall I tell you? > > > > The antimatter was removed by God in order to form the outer shell of > > > the medium through which space-time expands. This shell was moved FAR > > > away from the expanding space-time, but acts as a final boundary, > > > outside of which there is NOTHING. This boundary is called (in the > > > Qur'an) 'the Face of God', much like a cube has 6 faces. This is WHY > > > space-time expands, as the opposing charge of the anti-matter shell > > > attracts it. In fact, latest findings seem to suggest that the rate > > > of space-time's expansion is increasing. This would be expected, if > > > we were, finally, approaching that boundary. Ever put two magnets > > > together where their opposite poles are towards one another? As you > > > move them closer and closer, there's a point at which the two are > > > drawn together VERY quickly. In the case of a space-time consisting > > > primarily of matter and an outer shell to the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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