" Too much thinking about it just leads to debilitating anger." What else would make us stop that exercise in futility !
" Personally, I've been waiting for some kind of creative flood to come out of me." Believe me, Neil, I too am, out of you, that is ! " I don't exactly trust to this (or believe I'm 'special') ..." It might not be easy to put an end to our self - doubts, but why or how the hell would your mind - body unit deliver, if you do not trust it to ? "... - yet nothing else seems worth a hoot." A milestone forward ... " This could all be self-indulgent and neurotic ... " Two milestones backward ... " ... and I can only really go with a sense that it isn't just this." It sure isn't this going backward. Even I, who know you only from the words you pen, found a surge of happiness at those forward, positive thoughts of yours. The creative flood would come, only if we would allow it to. And, if it doesn't, at least we'd know that it was not us who prevented the happening ! On Mar 4, 12:32 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Most of my life it's turned out that most of the people around me were > in a worse state than me. Some way back now, I used to find myself in > the K2 ("nutter") ward every summer as the branch union rep for FE/ > HE. Our FE colleagues seemed to get it worse, and they had it worse > in terms of job conditions. In every job I've done there was > somewhere people could get relief amongst others, and over the years > this space seems to have disappeared, requiring more and more > professional help that doesn't seem to work. As a young kid (in my > twenties) as a cop I used to look on wondering what the ****** **** > was going on (no real words, just ineffable expletive). I knew I > needed help myself, but couldn't find it anywhere, let alone for some > of the deadbeats and others I was dealing with. > These days I think I understand and have some clue about what is > supposed to be available and know isn't really. Too much thinking > about it just leads to debilitating anger. Personally, I've been > waiting for some kind of creative flood to come out of me. I don't > exactly trust to this (or believe I'm 'special') - yet nothing else > seems worth a hoot. This could all be self-indulgent and neurotic, > and I can only really go with a sense that it isn't just this. I've > seen plenty crack up, mostly in 'secret' (maybe like Blair), others > recover to apparently cope and achieve. > > A lot of what is going on is obvious and dire. We can write a number > of scenarios about it, one of which leads only to apocalypse and is > probably the one we are living, over-populating ourselves to a point > where the cull, natural or otherwise will have to come. We actually > show scant concern for indigenous peoples once we decide to move in. > These days, human slaves are not of much interest or value, and we > probably have the means to destroy people and leave habitats fairly > intact as lebensraum. Such crud is not my recommendation, just > observation. So where are the other scripts? > > On 3 Mar, 18:11, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Starting with Lehrer's article and going on with some excellent > > thoughtful contributions here, this thread has the potential to become > > something very good. > > > I believe that a danger in dealing with the subject of "depression" is > > that there are many different modes of melancholy, many different > > causes and, consequently. many different ways of treating/dealing with/ > > living with/learning from/transcending it. > > > There's evidence for neuro-biochemical foundations for particular > > depressive states, having generally (much simplified here!) to do with > > the neurotransmitter serotonin. This is the level at which many of the > > current pharmaceutical "treatments" kick in. The question which can > > often be asked is whether a chemical club ameliorates a particular > > symptomatic which is actually a signal for something else. In a > > society which believes in quick fixes, the immediate recourse to pills > > is prevelant and, I suspect, frequently shortsighted. > > > That said, I know that chronic, deep depression is something awful and > > - ultimately - pathological. In such cases, medication may be > > absolutely necessary. The inability to have any experience of joy in > > life over a longer period is for me the best definition of hell I can > > come up with (and I don't need any supernatural categories for it). To > > experience one's life as continuously completely dreary and futile, to > > feel that the effort of just getting out of bed at some stage of the > > day takes more energy than one has available, to see one's own > > existence as a uselessly complicating factor for others so that the > > whole world would be better if one simply ceased to exist ... I've > > been there. I never want to go back there. I've known many others who > > have suffered terribly, and one of my best friends killed himself > > because - after many years, and all sorts of treatments and therapies > > - he just couldn't stand it any more. > > > I came out of that particular horror - with some pharmaceutical help, > > but more fundamentally because I got the professional support > > necessary to look at the contradictions within myself, to realise how > > I had self-limited the options and possibilites in fact open to me > > and, in my particular case, because I learned to recognise, accept, > > embrace and integrate some darker parts of my personality. So for me, > > in the end, through all the suffering and pain, it was an occasion of > > growth. > > > As in so many things, in the case of fundamental mental/psychological > > states, we are constantly tempted to look for simple definitions and > > easy remedies. But, as Oscar Wilde once observed, "the truth is rarely > > pure and never simple." > > > Francis > > > On 3 Mrz., 00:01, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > One of the most challenging aspects of studying depression is the vast > > > amount of contradiction in the literature. Virtually every claim comes > > > with a contradictory claim, which is also supported by evidence. I > > > tend to believe this confusion will persist until our definitions of > > > depression become more precise, so that intense sadness and > > > paralyzing, chronic, suicidal despair are no longer lumped together in > > > the same psychiatric category. (Lehrer) > > > > I've been 'depressed' since middle teenage, with some bouts of > > > clinical depression, partly associated with trauma. I've had some > > > periods I'd call madness, and though I have never done anything > > > 'serious' have found myself out of control at times in some sort of > > > desperate way. I can claim some fairly good achievements in such > > > periods, but mostly they are debilitating rather than manic periods. > > > I'm coming out of difficult times at the moment and am almost > > > 'champing at the bit', but really screwed by being physically crook. > > > I'm about to force myself to write and 'get straight' and just > > > beginning to feel it will work. Lehrer may help - the blog is good. > > > > On 2 Mar, 01:41, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Rigsby, > > > > Slip and I have been tangentially discussing this in the Robert > > > > Thurman post. We both want to digest it and come back here for > > > > discussion. Very interesting. > > > > > On 28 Feb, 03:00, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I meant to respond sooner Riggers, but was too depressed! True > > > > > sadly! There is little not to be depressed about in contemplation of > > > > > the human condition. I would like to believe that a world more > > > > > engaged with truth and knowledge would help prevent this, but know > > > > > many people who don't want to contemplate reality because it is too > > > > > painful. > > > > > > On 27 Feb, 13:18, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > "Depression's Upside" By Jonah Lehrer > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/magazine/28depression-t.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
