“i think it works both ways....we alter the 'cause' and so alter the 'effect'....” – PSK
At first glance, I rebel at the notion PSK. Yet, perhaps if you broke it down somewhat…and showed us exactly how this works, I might be able to change my view. Today I was contemplating this very thing. I found that it was not my will that caused my body to be born. Nor was it my will to invent the very language nor any of the words or concepts we are using in this discussion either. It is not my will to even survive…even though this too is ‘innate’ in the sense that an organism’s function is to live and survive. Many (me included) embrace the notion that at “the beginning” everything was set in motion and all was and is predetermined. Yes, this is only one form of teleology, but it’s apropos to our current discussion. So, again, perhaps some unpacking of how ‘we’ in fact do stuff i.e. “alter the ‘cause’”, OK? Thanks On Apr 12, 10:11 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > i think it works both ways....we alter the 'cause' and so alter the > 'effect'.... > > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:49 PM, ornamentalmind > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > So PSK, you believe that there is no cause and effect?...that somehow > > 'we' can actually change the apparent progression of events? > > Interesting.... > > > On Apr 10, 1:20 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > all your posts seem to say one thing " nothings new.. wat has been... > > > has been and will be" ... kind of > > > > On Apr 5, 6:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > “…which makes us enemies of each other The state is now bigger than us > > > > mortal beings…” – PSK > > > > > Yet again, I just don’t see it. How is ‘the state’ bigger today than > > > > in, say, the days of Rome?...of ancient Egypt? And, I’m not so sure it > > > > has to do with size either. I’m guessing the issue is perceived > > > > power. . . which, again, I just don’t see as being any more or less > > > > than has been reported in the past > > > > > On Apr 5, 6:56 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > In the last post an evolved Mind was being discussed…here’s what I > > > > > think…(it lacks structure...and very naive but please be > > > > > patient ...) > > > > > The Mind continues to evolve….It is a manifestation of the much > > larger > > > > > Process...The process from which we source the creation of > > intelligent > > > > > life. When one sees oneself in isolation from the Process arise the > > > > > existential tendencies... An evolved mind I suppose is one with the > > > > > open eye...the Minds eye... (One of the reasons I love this group is > > > > > the great name)…to put it simply there is the higher self and the > > > > > lower self inside everyone...we are constantly pulled down by our > > > > > visceral and basic tendencies (lower self)...and not everyone cares > > to > > > > > realize their higher self..I guess that’s why great thinkers of the > > > > > past incorporated their ideas into simple doctrines to follow because > > > > > they certainly had an idea of an evolved and enlightened society but > > > > > also knew that not every person is a philosopher so it was propagated > > > > > as religion a lifestyle which would earn you great spiritual > > dividends… > > > > > of course over time it got corrupted as a means of monopolizing power > > > > > over society by a learned few..That is one of the main problems of > > our > > > > > society today…we tend to forget the basic idea behind everything…and > > > > > let institutions get bigger than us…what began as an explanation for > > > > > unexplained phenomena (science being not so developed then) and an > > > > > attempt to enforce some moral code, has become bigger than us…rides > > > > > over us and is the plague of our times…a extra and outdated baggage > > > > > from the past…it has outgrown its relevance today…similarly the > > STATE… > > > > > which began as an attempt to organize social and political life…from > > > > > chiefdoms to countries it has transformed…and with it has grown the > > > > > evil of patriotism(not to mention the violence to determine what is > > > > > the best way to organize political life)…which makes us enemies of > > > > > each other The state is now bigger than us mortal beings…Identities… > > > > > ethnicity…language…caste etc… we seem to need them to validate our > > > > > existence…the burning question of Who am I…I think I went a little > > off > > > > > the mark… what I want to say is that…The Mind ..Born out of flux > > > > > desperately seeks to find permanence(so its attachment to symbols)…as > > > > > the mind is the smaller functioning unit of the bigger Whole…it also > > > > > tries to establish itself while contributing to the ‘process’…thus > > > > > emerges our ego and sense of ‘self’…the Society is a collective body > > > > > of the individual units…also seeks the same permanence…and so it > > > > > creates institutions and preserves them…Change always comes In some > > > > > kind of revolution(similarly In an enlightened individual…he forms > > his > > > > > own individual ideas against what he has been brought up believing > > )…a > > > > > mutilation from the past…but occur it must…because permanency is not > > > > > the natural state of things… > > > > > There are I think certain universal truths which must be and are > > > > > arrived at…these are the key points of our evolution…they are arrived > > > > > at through the smaller individual units…taking the form of Einstein > > or > > > > > whatever;-)…like Molly mentioned communication is a very imp. Factor > > > > > for growth…the Mind does not grow in isolation…the society is really > > a > > > > > two way street I think…while the individual unit grows and evolves in > > > > > relation to it…it also acts as an oppressor of the individual… Don’t > > > > > worry Ash I think the symbols will evolve on their own…. > > > > > What say my fellows?- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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