Interesting, gabby. "Would-be" is one translation of "Würde". The more common one in the context of Article 2 of the "Grundgesetz" is "Dignity."
"Die Würde des Menschens ist unantastbar" = The dignity of the human being is sacrosanct. I really like the connection between "would-be" and "dignity." Something to think about. Thanks! :-) Francis On 14 Apr., 11:35, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > In the beginning of our constitution there is the human would-be > (German: Würde). The carnivorous reductionists prefer their > predetermintation postulation for the same reason but with a different > effect for them. > > On Apr 14, 3:04 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Everything we do is predetermined? That is cow dung at its best. > > > We have choice, the world is totally diverse, while some are into mass > > killing others are into basking in the warm sun on a tropical beach. > > > On Apr 13, 11:33 am, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Everything we do is predetermined, but we are the agents and as such > > > what all of us are doing is changing and shaping the future. All the > > > sciences are a result of human endeavour, if people are prolonging > > > death through bypass surgery and the rest it is due to concerted > > > action. For any cogent action a basic belief that we are free is > > > required, then only can there be zest and enthusiasm in life. It is > > > only when we cosider ourselves to be free that we can hold anyone to > > > be accountable , otherwise there is no sense in life. No matter how > > > much bound a person considers himself to be , he is happy in his > > > triumphs and sad in his failures.My will may be bound but when I > > > act , it is I who am acting and thus to all intents and purposes I am > > > free. What all the individuals are doing today is deciding the future > > > to a very large extent. > > > > On Apr 12, 11:36 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > “i think it works both ways....we alter the 'cause' and so alter the > > > > 'effect'....” – PSK > > > > > At first glance, I rebel at the notion PSK. Yet, perhaps if you broke > > > > it down somewhat…and showed us exactly how this works, I might be able > > > > to change my view. > > > > > Today I was contemplating this very thing. I found that it was not my > > > > will that caused my body to be born. Nor was it my will to invent the > > > > very language nor any of the words or concepts we are using in this > > > > discussion either. It is not my will to even survive…even though this > > > > too is ‘innate’ in the sense that an organism’s function is to live > > > > and survive. > > > > > Many (me included) embrace the notion that at “the beginning” > > > > everything was set in motion and all was and is predetermined. Yes, > > > > this is only one form of teleology, but it’s apropos to our current > > > > discussion. > > > > > So, again, perhaps some unpacking of how ‘we’ in fact do stuff i.e. > > > > “alter the ‘cause’”, OK? Thanks > > > > > On Apr 12, 10:11 pm, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > i think it works both ways....we alter the 'cause' and so alter the > > > > > 'effect'.... > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:49 PM, ornamentalmind > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > So PSK, you believe that there is no cause and effect?...that > > > > > > somehow > > > > > > 'we' can actually change the apparent progression of events? > > > > > > Interesting.... > > > > > > > On Apr 10, 1:20 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > all your posts seem to say one thing " nothings new.. wat has > > > > > > > been... > > > > > > > has been and will be" ... kind of > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 6:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > “…which makes us enemies of each other The state is now bigger > > > > > > > > than us > > > > > > > > mortal beings…” – PSK > > > > > > > > > Yet again, I just don’t see it. How is ‘the state’ bigger today > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > in, say, the days of Rome?...of ancient Egypt? And, I’m not so > > > > > > > > sure it > > > > > > > > has to do with size either. I’m guessing the issue is perceived > > > > > > > > power. . . which, again, I just don’t see as being any more or > > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > > than has been reported in the past > > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 6:56 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In the last post an evolved Mind was being discussed…here’s > > > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > think…(it lacks structure...and very naive but please be > > > > > > > > > patient ...) > > > > > > > > > The Mind continues to evolve….It is a manifestation of the > > > > > > > > > much > > > > > > larger > > > > > > > > > Process...The process from which we source the creation of > > > > > > intelligent > > > > > > > > > life. When one sees oneself in isolation from the Process > > > > > > > > > arise the > > > > > > > > > existential tendencies... An evolved mind I suppose is one > > > > > > > > > with the > > > > > > > > > open eye...the Minds eye... (One of the reasons I love this > > > > > > > > > group is > > > > > > > > > the great name)…to put it simply there is the higher self and > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > lower self inside everyone...we are constantly pulled down by > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > visceral and basic tendencies (lower self)...and not everyone > > > > > > > > > cares > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > realize their higher self..I guess that’s why great thinkers > > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > past incorporated their ideas into simple doctrines to follow > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > they certainly had an idea of an evolved and enlightened > > > > > > > > > society but > > > > > > > > > also knew that not every person is a philosopher so it was > > > > > > > > > propagated > > > > > > > > > as religion a lifestyle which would earn you great spiritual > > > > > > dividends… > > > > > > > > > of course over time it got corrupted as a means of > > > > > > > > > monopolizing power > > > > > > > > > over society by a learned few..That is one of the main > > > > > > > > > problems of > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > society today…we tend to forget the basic idea behind > > > > > > > > > everything…and > > > > > > > > > let institutions get bigger than us…what began as an > > > > > > > > > explanation for > > > > > > > > > unexplained phenomena (science being not so developed then) > > > > > > > > > and an > > > > > > > > > attempt to enforce some moral code, has become bigger than > > > > > > > > > us…rides > > > > > > > > > over us and is the plague of our times…a extra and outdated > > > > > > > > > baggage > > > > > > > > > from the past…it has outgrown its relevance today…similarly > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > STATE… > > > > > > > > > which began as an attempt to organize social and political > > > > > > > > > life…from > > > > > > > > > chiefdoms to countries it has transformed…and with it has > > > > > > > > > grown the > > > > > > > > > evil of patriotism(not to mention the violence to determine > > > > > > > > > what is > > > > > > > > > the best way to organize political life)…which makes us > > > > > > > > > enemies of > > > > > > > > > each other The state is now bigger than us mortal > > > > > > > > > beings…Identities… > > > > > > > > > ethnicity…language…caste etc… we seem to need them to > > > > > > > > > validate our > > > > > > > > > existence…the burning question of Who am I…I think I went a > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > off > > > > > > > > > the mark… what I want to say is that…The Mind ..Born out of > > > > > > > > > flux > > > > > > > > > desperately seeks to find permanence(so its attachment to > > > > > > > > > symbols)…as > > > > > > > > > the mind is the smaller functioning unit of the bigger > > > > > > > > > Whole…it also > > > > > > > > > tries to establish itself while contributing to the > > > > > > > > > ‘process’…thus > > > > > > > > > emerges our ego and sense of ‘self’…the Society is a > > > > > > > > > collective body > > > > > > > > > of the individual units…also seeks the same permanence…and so > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > creates institutions and preserves them…Change always comes > > > > > > > > > In some > > > > > > > > > kind of revolution(similarly In an enlightened individual…he > > > > > > > > > forms > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > own individual ideas against what he has been brought up > > > > > > > > > believing > > > > > > )…a > > > > > > > > > mutilation from the past…but occur it must…because permanency > > > > > > > > > is not > > > > > > > > > the natural state of things… > > > > > > > > > There are I think certain universal truths which must be and > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > arrived at…these are the key points of our evolution…they are > > > > > > > > > arrived > > > > > > > > > at through the smaller individual units…taking the form of > > > > > > > > > Einstein > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > whatever;-)…like Molly mentioned communication is a very imp. > > > > > > > > > Factor > > > > > > > > > for growth…the Mind does not grow in isolation…the society is > > > > > > > > > really > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > two way street I think…while the individual unit grows and > > > > > > > > > evolves in > > > > > > > > > relation to it…it also acts as an oppressor of the > > > > > > > > > individual… Don’t > > > > > > > > > worry Ash I think the symbols will evolve on their own…. > > > > > > > > > What say my fellows?- Hide quoted text - 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