There's a lot of the economy that seems to need to be pretty bland and distributed unevenly but needed everywhere, and some that seems to be a lot cleverer that is pretty secretive and only allowed to a few. We seem to have little clue about how much work anyone should have to do and to live in fear of both having to do it and not having any to do. All remarkably unhealthy. The rest is a con of some sort.
On 18 June, 19:39, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > Well I am not so sure about that .. it was called to my attention of the > Jews out in the desert and the Golden calf.. it seemed God or Moses had a > little problem with that issue.. and it seems to me that capitalism leads > to the dance and worship of the golden calf. > Allan > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:58 PM, pol.science kid <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > Oh yeah.. they say the capitalist way is the sure way to heaven..and thats > > the path they preach to the comparatively new baby countries that are > > undecided on their path... > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:36 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Founded in capitalism? Did God write up the founding theory for > >> economics too? Is that what they teach you at school? > > >> On 17 Jun., 02:41, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hey Archy. Good seein' you around too. > > >> > Capital didn't mysteriously vanish. Real capital is durable. Bubbles > >> > create faux capital which of course disappears when the bubble pops > >> > because it never had anything to it to begin with. No substance. No > >> > reality. Never Never Land. A pinch of pixie dust. > > >> > Nor am I saying or implying that socialism is the alternative to > >> > capitalism. A healthy robust free market economic system founded in > >> > capitalism can certainly produce sufficient profits to create not only > >> > new capital but to also take care of the basic needs of all it's > >> > citizens so they may be free to be innovative, creative or just plain > >> > lazy if they so wish. A work ethic is not the standard by which > >> > someone gets to live or die. Nor is there any rule or principle > >> > which dictates that a healthy democratic society can be self- > >> > sustaining for all it's citizens. A society does not need every > >> > member's active participation in order to be healthy, wealthy, wise > >> > and compassionate. Quite frequently a few can carry the load for a > >> > large number of others. Besides, what do we do with the ones deemed > >> > non-self-sustaining? Find a humane and compassionate way to get rid > >> > of them? > > >> > On Jun 15, 5:04 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > I've never been happy with the term capitalism; some bustard always > >> > > seems to want us to forget notions of building it up and protecting > >> > > capital in favour of magic wand tricks done by accountants - with the > >> > > capital mysteriously vanishing from our grasp and use. Equally unhappy > >> > > that socialism is an alternative. Freedom under democratic respect in > >> > > societies that can sustain themselves is more where I see us going if > >> > > we have any sense. Good to see you about Gruff. > > >> > > On 15 June, 19:14, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > Vam, if you were not espousing the paranoia of world domination > >> > > > conspiracy theories, then may I suggest that when you send someone > >> to > >> > > > a conspiracy website, that you set that parameter up front else a > >> > > > person might get suspicious you were of the nature and espousing the > >> > > > message of that site. > > >> > > > I'm not defensive about it. I've just been on the merry-go-round > >> with > >> > > > conspiracists in the past and to be truthful I've gotten tired of > >> > > > their irrational paranoia. There are more than sufficient real > >> > > > problems in the world to want not to deal with unwarranted and > >> > > > emotional paranoia as well. > > >> > > > I also don't agree that the point of the alternate view was as you > >> > > > describe it. I can agree with your description but that was not > >> what > >> > > > the site was about -- at least to my perception. It's a paranoid > >> > > > conspiracy website that wants to duck and cover from those who > >> > > > allegedly wish to control the world. Maybe you were able to pick > >> the > >> > > > little good out of what was said. I must have missed it. > > >> > > > I also agree with your new rules for global capitalism in that they > >> > > > will include a lot of socialist agendas -- as they should. I'm > >> fairly > >> > > > certain we will wind up with a blend of socialism and capitalism > >> with > >> > > > the latter supporting the former -- again as it should. But we must > >> > > > be careful that the support of socialist goals does not drown the > >> > > > capitalist free market system. > > >> > > > On Jun 15, 12:18 am, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > " Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in the > >> > > > > mirror." > > >> > > > > This is one reason why we signed off last time, Gruff ! You > >> really > >> > > > > don't know what I'm seeing. The link I posted was just that : a > >> link > >> > > > > to some descriptions of what the capital and market processes > >> actually > >> > > > > involve. If it makes you defensive, as what you write seems to > >> > > > > indicate, it isn't really on me ... > > >> > > > > The point in the alternate view was that ... it's the same ' feet > >> of > >> > > > > clay ' story, with obvious greed and power at work. We've all > >> lived > >> > > > > with it, and know that ' small mind ' capitalism is what is > >> causing > >> > > > > this disruption cycle of pain and waste. We now also know that we > >> can > >> > > > > now aim to establish ' large - mind - universal - empathy ' > >> > > > > capitalism, that is more sustainable, honest and transparent, and > >> > > > > mutually respecting of life everywhere. That recognises... ' > >> excesses, > >> > > > > like accidents, are forever imminent but entirely undesirable and > >> > > > > completely avoidable.' That will not only accept moderation as a > >> great > >> > > > > and critically important value, but are actually wedded to doing > >> > > > > everything to ensure ' moral profits,' healthy competition,' and ' > >> > > > > productive power of capital and its democratised availability.' > >> > > > > Capital may continue to be marshalled by and placed in the > >> judgement > >> > > > > of individuals, but capital will henceforth be social assets, free > >> of > >> > > > > its origins in greed and its power purged of frankenstein aspects. > > >> > > > > The new rules of global capitalism would include a lot of > >> socialistic > >> > > > > goals and values, Gruff ! It's an awakening that has just begun to > >> > > > > happen.My call to all linear thinking capitalists and socialists, > >> and > >> > > > > the others, is ... step up, and embrace it. > > >> > > > > On Jun 15, 1:29 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > Sorry Gabby. Couldn't do that trip. Along with a major fear of > >> > > > > > heights, I can't breathe well at altitudes over 5,000 ft. > >> However, I > >> > > > > > have experienced a monkish environment here in the high deserts > >> of > >> > > > > > the Southwest. Very healthful, mentally and spiritually. > > >> > > > > > Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in the > >> mirror. > >> > > > > > Jekyll island is in Glynn County, Georgia and while it is an > >> island in > >> > > > > > the Atlantic Ocean it's not as isolated as the piece implies. > >> It's > >> > > > > > part of the U.S. and can be reached by rowboat, causeway or > >> plane. It > >> > > > > > has a golf club and a few resorts. And yes, Jekyll Island > >> resorts > >> > > > > > drew the elite for a number of centuries and it is a great part > >> of our > >> > > > > > history. It is also the place where the wealth elite gathered > >> to plan > >> > > > > > out a global economy that was not tied to gold but rather based > >> on the > >> > > > > > actual value of a nation's production and consumption. It was > >> the > >> > > > > > precursor to Bretton Woods. Now if you want to get into > >> conspiracy > >> > > > > > theories, Bretton Woods has spawned far more than Jekyll Island. > >> It's > >> > > > > > just that Jekyll Island has a much spookier name and thus gets > >> more > >> > > > > > press. > > > -- > > \--/ Peace > > -- > ( > ) > I_D Allan > > Be Paranoid. > God is always building a better idiot!!!
