A comment: Revisiting George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in 2010

see:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jun2010/1984-j12.shtml

On Jun 19, 3:54 pm, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> Archytas, you are quite right that the history of human trade and
> power are rife with examples of abuses, excesses and every dastardly
> deed known to and by our species.  In fact the history of humanity in
> all it's splendor is rife with those sames abuses and excesses.  It is
> also true that when it comes to abuses, excesses and downright
> nastiness, there is no species in existence (that we know of) which
> outdoes the human species.
>
> It is an age old truth and therefore trite that when it comes to nasty
> behavior, there is nothing new under the sun.  Or any other star for
> that matter.  However, I'd be willing to bet a solar unit or two that
> if there are other intelligent and sentient species in existence, that
> they've been through the same horrific growth process to becoming
> civilized.
>
> I become lost by your statement that you don't believe in capitalism.
> I'm not sure what you mean by that -- what it is that you don't
> believe in.  It sounds to me much like saying you don't believe in
> trade or commerce.  It's not a matter of belief.  It just is.  We've
> brought capitalism into existence by virtue of our penchant for trade,
> business and living better than the Joneses.  We created profit in the
> same manner and for the same reasons.  When we began to lay off those
> profits by investing in other money making schemes, we created
> capitalism.
>
> The way transactions work is really very simple.  They work according
> to the principles and parameters of supply and demand.  An area I
> think that needs working on is rather than going after the highest
> profit or making the most money, we concentrate on a fair profit and
> making a fair amount of money.  Win-win transactions that benefit all
> parties are the stuff of moral economics.
>
> Looking at what unions have created in western society, I'm not so
> sure that the preying isn't on both sides of the fence.  There is
> something somewhat out of kilter when an assembly line worker in
> Detroit makes more in wages and benefits than a nurse or skilled
> technician.
>
> On Jun 19, 2:44 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Even Marx and Lenin thought there was some good in capitalism, at
> > least in markets.  The problem was always to do with competition
> > producing monopoly once one lot got really efficient. Capitalism at
> > least freed  us up from feudalism.  My own suspicion is that even
> > these arguments failed to take into account what the historic
> > conditions and mechanisms of trade and power had really been about.  I
> > don't believe in capitalism because I'm sure it's as mythical and
> > religious stories and both communism and democracy have roots in
> > societies in which the rich came up with the ideas on the backs of
> > work done by slaves.  We are overdue for our own ideas and something
> > that allows for very different people in it.  I think we had some
> > brief eddies some years back when jobs were not scarce of what it
> > might feel like not to be beholden to the boss class.  I would guess
> > we have missed the chance for a sane (ish) society since WW2 by
> > encouraging huge population expansion and failing to be sensible about
> > religion.  Capitalism is probably just b-play to this wider lunacy.
> > What we need in systems of transaction is to understand how they self-
> > regulate so that we can trust to do work and feel it won't be stolen
> > in one way or another.  Capitalism always preys on some labour that
> > cannot protect itself.  This shouldn't blind us to its good bits.

Reply via email to