hmmmm let me see... On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 1:26 AM, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> test > > you passed Allan > On Jun 18, 3:53 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > There's a lot of the economy that seems to need to be pretty bland and > > distributed unevenly but needed everywhere, and some that seems to be > > a lot cleverer that is pretty secretive and only allowed to a few. We > > seem to have little clue about how much work anyone should have to do > > and to live in fear of both having to do it and not having any to do. > > All remarkably unhealthy. The rest is a con of some sort. > > > > On 18 June, 19:39, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Well I am not so sure about that .. it was called to my attention of > the > > > Jews out in the desert and the Golden calf.. it seemed God or Moses had > a > > > little problem with that issue.. and it seems to me that capitalism > leads > > > to the dance and worship of the golden calf. > > > Allan > > > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:58 PM, pol.science kid <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > Oh yeah.. they say the capitalist way is the sure way to heaven..and > thats > > > > the path they preach to the comparatively new baby countries that are > > > > undecided on their path... > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:36 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Founded in capitalism? Did God write up the founding theory for > > > >> economics too? Is that what they teach you at school? > > > > > >> On 17 Jun., 02:41, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > Hey Archy. Good seein' you around too. > > > > > >> > Capital didn't mysteriously vanish. Real capital is durable. > Bubbles > > > >> > create faux capital which of course disappears when the bubble > pops > > > >> > because it never had anything to it to begin with. No substance. > No > > > >> > reality. Never Never Land. A pinch of pixie dust. > > > > > >> > Nor am I saying or implying that socialism is the alternative to > > > >> > capitalism. A healthy robust free market economic system founded > in > > > >> > capitalism can certainly produce sufficient profits to create not > only > > > >> > new capital but to also take care of the basic needs of all it's > > > >> > citizens so they may be free to be innovative, creative or just > plain > > > >> > lazy if they so wish. A work ethic is not the standard by which > > > >> > someone gets to live or die. Nor is there any rule or principle > > > >> > which dictates that a healthy democratic society can be self- > > > >> > sustaining for all it's citizens. A society does not need every > > > >> > member's active participation in order to be healthy, wealthy, > wise > > > >> > and compassionate. Quite frequently a few can carry the load for > a > > > >> > large number of others. Besides, what do we do with the ones > deemed > > > >> > non-self-sustaining? Find a humane and compassionate way to get > rid > > > >> > of them? > > > > > >> > On Jun 15, 5:04 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > I've never been happy with the term capitalism; some bustard > always > > > >> > > seems to want us to forget notions of building it up and > protecting > > > >> > > capital in favour of magic wand tricks done by accountants - > with the > > > >> > > capital mysteriously vanishing from our grasp and use. Equally > unhappy > > > >> > > that socialism is an alternative. Freedom under democratic > respect in > > > >> > > societies that can sustain themselves is more where I see us > going if > > > >> > > we have any sense. Good to see you about Gruff. > > > > > >> > > On 15 June, 19:14, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > Vam, if you were not espousing the paranoia of world > domination > > > >> > > > conspiracy theories, then may I suggest that when you send > someone > > > >> to > > > >> > > > a conspiracy website, that you set that parameter up front > else a > > > >> > > > person might get suspicious you were of the nature and > espousing the > > > >> > > > message of that site. > > > > > >> > > > I'm not defensive about it. I've just been on the > merry-go-round > > > >> with > > > >> > > > conspiracists in the past and to be truthful I've gotten tired > of > > > >> > > > their irrational paranoia. There are more than sufficient > real > > > >> > > > problems in the world to want not to deal with unwarranted and > > > >> > > > emotional paranoia as well. > > > > > >> > > > I also don't agree that the point of the alternate view was as > you > > > >> > > > describe it. I can agree with your description but that was > not > > > >> what > > > >> > > > the site was about -- at least to my perception. It's a > paranoid > > > >> > > > conspiracy website that wants to duck and cover from those who > > > >> > > > allegedly wish to control the world. Maybe you were able to > pick > > > >> the > > > >> > > > little good out of what was said. I must have missed it. > > > > > >> > > > I also agree with your new rules for global capitalism in that > they > > > >> > > > will include a lot of socialist agendas -- as they should. > I'm > > > >> fairly > > > >> > > > certain we will wind up with a blend of socialism and > capitalism > > > >> with > > > >> > > > the latter supporting the former -- again as it should. But > we must > > > >> > > > be careful that the support of socialist goals does not drown > the > > > >> > > > capitalist free market system. > > > > > >> > > > On Jun 15, 12:18 am, vamadevananda <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > " Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in > the > > > >> > > > > mirror." > > > > > >> > > > > This is one reason why we signed off last time, Gruff ! You > > > >> really > > > >> > > > > don't know what I'm seeing. The link I posted was just that > : a > > > >> link > > > >> > > > > to some descriptions of what the capital and market > processes > > > >> actually > > > >> > > > > involve. If it makes you defensive, as what you write seems > to > > > >> > > > > indicate, it isn't really on me ... > > > > > >> > > > > The point in the alternate view was that ... it's the same ' > feet > > > >> of > > > >> > > > > clay ' story, with obvious greed and power at work. We've > all > > > >> lived > > > >> > > > > with it, and know that ' small mind ' capitalism is what is > > > >> causing > > > >> > > > > this disruption cycle of pain and waste. We now also know > that we > > > >> can > > > >> > > > > now aim to establish ' large - mind - universal - empathy ' > > > >> > > > > capitalism, that is more sustainable, honest and > transparent, and > > > >> > > > > mutually respecting of life everywhere. That recognises... ' > > > >> excesses, > > > >> > > > > like accidents, are forever imminent but entirely > undesirable and > > > >> > > > > completely avoidable.' That will not only accept moderation > as a > > > >> great > > > >> > > > > and critically important value, but are actually wedded to > doing > > > >> > > > > everything to ensure ' moral profits,' healthy competition,' > and ' > > > >> > > > > productive power of capital and its democratised > availability.' > > > >> > > > > Capital may continue to be marshalled by and placed in the > > > >> judgement > > > >> > > > > of individuals, but capital will henceforth be social > assets, free > > > >> of > > > >> > > > > its origins in greed and its power purged of frankenstein > aspects. > > > > > >> > > > > The new rules of global capitalism would include a lot of > > > >> socialistic > > > >> > > > > goals and values, Gruff ! It's an awakening that has just > begun to > > > >> > > > > happen.My call to all linear thinking capitalists and > socialists, > > > >> and > > > >> > > > > the others, is ... step up, and embrace it. > > > > > >> > > > > On Jun 15, 1:29 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Sorry Gabby. Couldn't do that trip. Along with a major > fear of > > > >> > > > > > heights, I can't breathe well at altitudes over 5,000 ft. > > > >> However, I > > > >> > > > > > have experienced a monkish environment here in the high > deserts > > > >> of > > > >> > > > > > the Southwest. Very healthful, mentally and spiritually. > > > > > >> > > > > > Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in > the > > > >> mirror. > > > >> > > > > > Jekyll island is in Glynn County, Georgia and while it is > an > > > >> island in > > > >> > > > > > the Atlantic Ocean it's not as isolated as the piece > implies. > > > >> It's > > > >> > > > > > part of the U.S. and can be reached by rowboat, causeway > or > > > >> plane. It > > > >> > > > > > has a golf club and a few resorts. And yes, Jekyll Island > > > >> resorts > > > >> > > > > > drew the elite for a number of centuries and it is a great > part > > > >> of our > > > >> > > > > > history. It is also the place where the wealth elite > gathered > > > >> to plan > > > >> > > > > > out a global economy that was not tied to gold but rather > based > > > >> on the > > > >> > > > > > actual value of a nation's production and consumption. It > was > > > >> the > > > >> > > > > > precursor to Bretton Woods. Now if you want to get into > > > >> conspiracy > > > >> > > > > > theories, Bretton Woods has spawned far more than Jekyll > Island. > > > >> It's > > > >> > > > > > just that Jekyll Island has a much spookier name and thus > gets > > > >> more > > > >> > > > > > press. > > > > > > -- > > > > \--/ Peace > > > > > -- > > > ( > > > ) > > > I_D Allan > > > > > Be Paranoid. > > > God is always building a better idiot!!! > -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
