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On Jun 18, 3:53 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > There's a lot of the economy that seems to need to be pretty bland and > distributed unevenly but needed everywhere, and some that seems to be > a lot cleverer that is pretty secretive and only allowed to a few. We > seem to have little clue about how much work anyone should have to do > and to live in fear of both having to do it and not having any to do. > All remarkably unhealthy. The rest is a con of some sort. > > On 18 June, 19:39, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Well I am not so sure about that .. it was called to my attention of the > > Jews out in the desert and the Golden calf.. it seemed God or Moses had a > > little problem with that issue.. and it seems to me that capitalism leads > > to the dance and worship of the golden calf. > > Allan > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:58 PM, pol.science kid > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > Oh yeah.. they say the capitalist way is the sure way to heaven..and thats > > > the path they preach to the comparatively new baby countries that are > > > undecided on their path... > > > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:36 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Founded in capitalism? Did God write up the founding theory for > > >> economics too? Is that what they teach you at school? > > > >> On 17 Jun., 02:41, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > Hey Archy. Good seein' you around too. > > > >> > Capital didn't mysteriously vanish. Real capital is durable. Bubbles > > >> > create faux capital which of course disappears when the bubble pops > > >> > because it never had anything to it to begin with. No substance. No > > >> > reality. Never Never Land. A pinch of pixie dust. > > > >> > Nor am I saying or implying that socialism is the alternative to > > >> > capitalism. A healthy robust free market economic system founded in > > >> > capitalism can certainly produce sufficient profits to create not only > > >> > new capital but to also take care of the basic needs of all it's > > >> > citizens so they may be free to be innovative, creative or just plain > > >> > lazy if they so wish. A work ethic is not the standard by which > > >> > someone gets to live or die. Nor is there any rule or principle > > >> > which dictates that a healthy democratic society can be self- > > >> > sustaining for all it's citizens. A society does not need every > > >> > member's active participation in order to be healthy, wealthy, wise > > >> > and compassionate. Quite frequently a few can carry the load for a > > >> > large number of others. Besides, what do we do with the ones deemed > > >> > non-self-sustaining? Find a humane and compassionate way to get rid > > >> > of them? > > > >> > On Jun 15, 5:04 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > I've never been happy with the term capitalism; some bustard always > > >> > > seems to want us to forget notions of building it up and protecting > > >> > > capital in favour of magic wand tricks done by accountants - with > > >> > > the > > >> > > capital mysteriously vanishing from our grasp and use. Equally > > >> > > unhappy > > >> > > that socialism is an alternative. Freedom under democratic respect > > >> > > in > > >> > > societies that can sustain themselves is more where I see us going if > > >> > > we have any sense. Good to see you about Gruff. > > > >> > > On 15 June, 19:14, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > Vam, if you were not espousing the paranoia of world domination > > >> > > > conspiracy theories, then may I suggest that when you send someone > > >> to > > >> > > > a conspiracy website, that you set that parameter up front else a > > >> > > > person might get suspicious you were of the nature and espousing > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > message of that site. > > > >> > > > I'm not defensive about it. I've just been on the merry-go-round > > >> with > > >> > > > conspiracists in the past and to be truthful I've gotten tired of > > >> > > > their irrational paranoia. There are more than sufficient real > > >> > > > problems in the world to want not to deal with unwarranted and > > >> > > > emotional paranoia as well. > > > >> > > > I also don't agree that the point of the alternate view was as you > > >> > > > describe it. I can agree with your description but that was not > > >> what > > >> > > > the site was about -- at least to my perception. It's a paranoid > > >> > > > conspiracy website that wants to duck and cover from those who > > >> > > > allegedly wish to control the world. Maybe you were able to pick > > >> the > > >> > > > little good out of what was said. I must have missed it. > > > >> > > > I also agree with your new rules for global capitalism in that they > > >> > > > will include a lot of socialist agendas -- as they should. I'm > > >> fairly > > >> > > > certain we will wind up with a blend of socialism and capitalism > > >> with > > >> > > > the latter supporting the former -- again as it should. But we > > >> > > > must > > >> > > > be careful that the support of socialist goals does not drown the > > >> > > > capitalist free market system. > > > >> > > > On Jun 15, 12:18 am, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > " Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in the > > >> > > > > mirror." > > > >> > > > > This is one reason why we signed off last time, Gruff ! You > > >> really > > >> > > > > don't know what I'm seeing. The link I posted was just that : a > > >> link > > >> > > > > to some descriptions of what the capital and market processes > > >> actually > > >> > > > > involve. If it makes you defensive, as what you write seems to > > >> > > > > indicate, it isn't really on me ... > > > >> > > > > The point in the alternate view was that ... it's the same ' feet > > >> of > > >> > > > > clay ' story, with obvious greed and power at work. We've all > > >> lived > > >> > > > > with it, and know that ' small mind ' capitalism is what is > > >> causing > > >> > > > > this disruption cycle of pain and waste. We now also know that we > > >> can > > >> > > > > now aim to establish ' large - mind - universal - empathy ' > > >> > > > > capitalism, that is more sustainable, honest and transparent, and > > >> > > > > mutually respecting of life everywhere. That recognises... ' > > >> excesses, > > >> > > > > like accidents, are forever imminent but entirely undesirable and > > >> > > > > completely avoidable.' That will not only accept moderation as a > > >> great > > >> > > > > and critically important value, but are actually wedded to doing > > >> > > > > everything to ensure ' moral profits,' healthy competition,' and > > >> > > > > ' > > >> > > > > productive power of capital and its democratised availability.' > > >> > > > > Capital may continue to be marshalled by and placed in the > > >> judgement > > >> > > > > of individuals, but capital will henceforth be social assets, > > >> > > > > free > > >> of > > >> > > > > its origins in greed and its power purged of frankenstein > > >> > > > > aspects. > > > >> > > > > The new rules of global capitalism would include a lot of > > >> socialistic > > >> > > > > goals and values, Gruff ! It's an awakening that has just begun > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > happen.My call to all linear thinking capitalists and socialists, > > >> and > > >> > > > > the others, is ... step up, and embrace it. > > > >> > > > > On Jun 15, 1:29 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > Sorry Gabby. Couldn't do that trip. Along with a major fear > > >> > > > > > of > > >> > > > > > heights, I can't breathe well at altitudes over 5,000 ft. > > >> However, I > > >> > > > > > have experienced a monkish environment here in the high > > >> > > > > > deserts > > >> of > > >> > > > > > the Southwest. Very healthful, mentally and spiritually. > > > >> > > > > > Vam, I'm sorry but I think you're seeing conspiracies in the > > >> mirror. > > >> > > > > > Jekyll island is in Glynn County, Georgia and while it is an > > >> island in > > >> > > > > > the Atlantic Ocean it's not as isolated as the piece implies. > > >> It's > > >> > > > > > part of the U.S. and can be reached by rowboat, causeway or > > >> plane. It > > >> > > > > > has a golf club and a few resorts. And yes, Jekyll Island > > >> resorts > > >> > > > > > drew the elite for a number of centuries and it is a great part > > >> of our > > >> > > > > > history. It is also the place where the wealth elite gathered > > >> to plan > > >> > > > > > out a global economy that was not tied to gold but rather based > > >> on the > > >> > > > > > actual value of a nation's production and consumption. It was > > >> the > > >> > > > > > precursor to Bretton Woods. Now if you want to get into > > >> conspiracy > > >> > > > > > theories, Bretton Woods has spawned far more than Jekyll > > >> > > > > > Island. > > >> It's > > >> > > > > > just that Jekyll Island has a much spookier name and thus gets > > >> more > > >> > > > > > press. > > > > -- > > > \--/ Peace > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > I_D Allan > > > Be Paranoid. > > God is always building a better idiot!!!
