Ahhh and now I know. Sikh myself but then I think you knew that?
On 16 Aug, 14:56, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Sat Sri Akaal ! Lee , I am a Hindu. > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:46 AM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > RP Singh ji, > > > Yes I agree 100% with you here. I would say though that it is > > important just how we define what freewil is. > > > I define it as the ability to make choice. > > > It is clear that we have this ability, hence freewill exists. > > > On 16 Aug, 12:07, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Lee you are free to greet me in any manner as I believe in one God. It is > > > very difficult to understand the mechanism behind the ' will ' You will > > at > > > least accede that we are sometimes in complete control or I may say sway > > of > > > our emotions. Sometimes anger binds us in such a way that we seem to be > > > acting helplessly. But our emotions are not the only binding forces , our > > > understanding and imagination also bind us. When the environment acts on > > us > > > there is neurological activity in the brain which precedes the ' will ' . > > > When we act and react there is neurological activity in the brain which > > > precedes , emotion , thought and action. psychotics' emotions and > > thought > > > processes are bizarre , yet under the treatment with medicines these > > > emotions cool down and thought processes become normal. So is it not > > normal > > > to say that emotions and actions are caused by neurological activity in > > the > > > brain. And the will no matter how free is tied down by the brain. Our > > > biological instincts sends signals to the brain and the brain acts > > > accordingly but our understanding also plays a part as it stops wrong > > > actions.The ' will ' which appears free is actually under the control of > > the > > > organism which is physical in nature. > > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 2:35 AM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > RP Singh, > > > > > Would it be appropriate to give you a big Sat Sri Akaal! I wonder? > > > > > It is fitting that you mention anger, I have long been in the thrall > > > > of such emotion, but I have stroven hard over my life to bring this > > > > under control, and lo it is, I very rarely get angery nowadays. So am > > > > I then controling this nature inside, yes I belive so. > > > > > By what mechanisim do I do so, if not freedom of choice? > > > > > This is an old discusion with me and Pat, it defines logic to me, > > > > given what I belive about God. That is we have the God granted > > > > freedom of choice to reach for God or not, otherwise we are merely > > > > machines? No I do not believe this is the case. > > > > > On 13 Aug, 17:38, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > To all intents and purposes we have free will but we do freely what > > is > > > > the > > > > > will of God. Now Lee , when you were young didn't you ever feel a > > strong > > > > > emotion for a girl. That is how Nature binds you from inside by your > > own > > > > > nature , sometime you are out of control with anger , isn't that > > nature > > > > > binding you from inside you. Someone insults you , that is Nature > > acting > > > > > from outside you and you give a fitting reply , that is bondage from > > > > inside. > > > > > As we are the agents of Nature we feel free in ourselves and to > > others. > > > > > The ties that bind us are very subtle and not easily discernible to > > us , > > > > we > > > > > have to go really into depth to understand our bondage. > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:14 AM, [email protected] < > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Ohh Pat as always there is much to say on this post. > > > > > > > I'll start as is my want backwards if I may. > > > > > > > Why is a God that is not omnipotent not worthy of being worshipped? > > > > > > My father is not what i would call a good man by any stretch of the > > > > > > imagination, and it is true to say that if I was not his son I > > would > > > > > > not be a friend to the man. I love him though, he commands my love > > he > > > > > > is after all one of the people responsible for my being. > > > > > > > God is omnipotent, yes Ibelive that of God. So a God that is > > > > > > ominpotent has not the power to grant certian speices God has > > created > > > > > > the freedom of choice, to choose to seek God or not? That makes no > > > > > > sense. An all powerfull God can of course do anything. > > > > > > > There is no contradiction in the idea of an all powefull God not > > > > > > useing all of Gods powers. I could kill another man, I have the > > > > > > knowledge and the power to do that, yet I choose not to. > > > > > > > There is then no logical discrepancy in having the power to do > > > > > > anything and choosing not to do certian things. > > > > > > > The contradiction I see in the words that admitadly I have placed > > on > > > > > > your tounge is simple. > > > > > > > In essance RP's post says theer is no free will, this is then what > > I > > > > > > deny, I say that that the opposite is true. Yet you manitan that > > there > > > > > > is no I, that we all are playing the part that god has given us. > > If > > > > > > You and RP play the part of saying there is no free will and > > attribute > > > > > > that to God saying there is no free will, then you cannot possibly > > > > > > claim that my stance 'there is free will' is also what God is > > saying > > > > > > via me. Contradiction. > > > > > > > Who is it that afirms free will, my Self, or God through me? > > > > > > Who is it that denies free will, your Self or God through you? > > > > > > > On 13 Aug, 14:22, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 13 Aug, 14:13, "[email protected]" < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And I would of course deny all of this, yet if I do Pat would > > have > > > > it > > > > > > > > that in fact I deny nowt and that God within is doing the > > denying, > > > > > > > > however I can see contradiction here. > > > > > > > > Just name the contradictions, then. You've nailed my response > > and my > > > > > > > reasons for it. Is it just that you find it distasteful and > > demand > > > > > > > that you have SOME power even in the face of Omnipotence? I find > > > > > > > contradictions between 'free will' and Omnipotence. That is, God > > > > > > > CAN'T be Omnipotent, if people can act freely and, in essence, > > act > > > > > > > against His Will. If you can argue for Omnipotence and Free Will > > > > > > > without dancing around that conundrum, I'm all ears. Otherwise, > > you > > > > > > > end up having your free will but, in having it, you no longer > > have a > > > > > > > God that is omnipotent and, therefore, not worthy of worship. > > Whilst > > > > > > > I maintain an Omnipotent being and only have to submit to that > > which > > > > > > > MUST have complete power anyway. And I can find NO > > contradictions in > > > > > > > that. But, I'm all ears with respect to hearing an argument for > > both > > > > > > > having an omnipotent God and people retaining free will. That > > is, > > > > > > > I'll listen, but I've already outed the inherent contradiction in > > > > > > > that, but I'm willing to listen to arguments that MAY discover a > > way > > > > > > > around it. Lead on, MacDuff.... ;-) > > > > > > > > > On 13 Aug, 14:02, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's just as likely that you are controlled by your parents > > and > > > > > > > > > thereafter the State. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 11:47 pm, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I am this organism and was born, will live and die. > > Whatever I > > > > > > think , > > > > > > > > > > feel and do is controlled by Nature , within me , and > > outside > > > > me. I > > > > > > > > > > feel free because I am part of that Nature.- Hide quoted > > text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
