Hello everyone its been awhile. This is a topic I know alot about. There is a multitude of reasons for suicide, chemical imbalance, loss of a child, unbearable physical pain. The pain of being a financial and emotional burden on loved ones, being raised with the inability to cope with life, abuse in all its forms. To say that suicide is a tantrum trivializes the person and what they have gone thru. Thought processes override what it will do to your family, what awaits you on the other side concerning God. Society dictates shame for a family in the wake of a suicide, the idea that the person is weak thus the family that spawned them must also be weak. Was it heroism when the zealots of masada committed mass suicide rather than be taken and used as roman slaves? Or cowardice. Everything that happens to us in our lives become ingrained in our souls, good and bad, negativity can be a reason but it is only one of many. There are different forms of depression and most people can be treated with medications and therapy's but sometimes nothing works, depression can be genetic. I know someone who refused to get her daughter help after her son was killed and her daughter wasnt improving after the appropriate amount of time. Why because she was worried what people would think; Unless you have walked in someone's shoes you have no way of knowing at what depth someones pain is. It is hard for me to relate to the stockmarket crash and men jumping out windows to their death, I am not able to understand those dynamics, was it because of greed/? The thought of being poor was too overwhelming? It is easy for us to judge things we do not understand, for us to make things simplistic, Is the person who commits heinous acts and when they get caught kill themselves doing their family a favour when they kill themselves, Is it understandable when you face life in prison to kill yourself as some people have done,
On Jan 18, 4:53 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > The escape has been religion which promises an afterlife and that has > had an enormous impact on human behavior. The other escape has been > worldly fame of some sort to land one in a history book or part of > some Canon- music, literature,etc. I think it creates a split psyche. > Render unto Caesar/God kind of tension. Even family memories are > limited, in most cases, to a generation or two. I think we dread death > beacuse we might feel unfinished in some way and there is no way to > retrieve the experience of life from the start- like that saying "if I > knew then what I know now". Just an opinion. > > On Jan 18, 5:36 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Heh yeah death and taxes, as the saying goes. > > > I find the notion of death as taboo very strange, I mean there is > > literaly no escapeing death. > > > On Jan 18, 3:06 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 1/17/2011 8:08 AM, [email protected] wrote:> Ash, > > > > > You say that 'it would be a greater waste to forego potential growth > > > > and deprive both oneself and > > > > community of the fruits of it.' > > > > > I suppose then the oprative word here is potential. Shrouded in the > > > > unkown future as all potiential must be, then the truth is we just > > > > have no way of knowing if a persons potiantial is towards great harm > > > > or benifit for them selves and their community. > > > > > So this is not really a call that you or I or anybody can make with > > > > any degree of certianty. We are still left then with the individuals > > > > right to determine his own life or death. > > > > I could agree to that, even more so if those around them can see it as > > > meeting their fate head on. The US culture seems to take death as taboo, > > > but there are still grit iron people around who would be proud to have > > > worked or fought to their dying breath, or something anything other than > > > going out with a whimper even if it is just to stare death in the face > > > at the last moment. Uncertainty the only certainty then? > > > > > On Jan 16, 5:17 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On 1/14/2011 2:09 AM, iam deheretic wrote: > > > > >>> Interesting question Lee > > > >>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM, [email protected] > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > >>> Hey Allan, > > > >>> But when you die a natural death do you not also deprive the > > > >>> world of > > > >>> your gifts? > > > >>> My personal opinion, I think this world is kind of a trial period in > > > >>> which we respond to the situations that surround us. The object of > > > >>> life is find and get to know the Father Creator and the situations > > > >>> that occur in our life bring us to the awareness of his existence. To > > > >>> me that is the most important thing in life. Then life becomes a > > > >>> celebration (including the difficult times) which is shared with > > > >>> others,,so they too can find and get to know the Father Creator. > > > >>> To commit suicide is a very egoistic thing in a lot of cases and when > > > >>> one suddenly realizes there is a God.. then you have a problem and I > > > >>> think in most cases they turn into their ego and are of little value > > > >>> to the rest of life. Now there are some cases where medically > > > >>> prolonging life is just as wrong. > > > >>> This probably makes no sense. > > > >>> Allan > > > >> It makes a lot of sense, being invested in something greater than > > > >> oneself (or immediate desires/challenges) can tap into a limitless > > > >> potential for overcoming. I've heard of people coming to very deep > > > >> insights into the meaning of things and ability to control how they > > > >> 'see' their pain in extreme circumstances. > > > > >> "But when you die a natural death do you not also deprive the world of > > > >> your gifts?" > > > > >> I've been thinking in terms of waste, all else aside it would be a > > > >> greater waste to forego potential growth and deprive both oneself and > > > >> community of the fruits of it. > > > > >> "To commit suicide is a very egoistic thing in a lot of cases and when > > > >> one suddenly realizes there is a God.. then you have a problem " > > > > >> -and in the cases where it is not an egoistic thing you realize there > > > >> is > > > >> no God? Just kidding! > > > > >> For me God was a big problem in my youth, it was not until I discarded > > > >> my conditioned alignments (full apostasy took some time) and studied a > > > >> lot about anthropology, metaphysics and philosophy that the concept > > > >> became what it should have been when I needed it then- inspiring of > > > >> hope. Trying to believe can be hell, but I think the brain is wired to > > > >> desire or believe good things so it probably works for 9/10. The 1/10, > > > >> I > > > >> guess are rotten apples. Not to identify you as either one Allan I > > > >> wouldn't presume what/where your beliefs come from. However, I don't > > > >> think the God I'd invent (which I believe we have the full right to do) > > > >> would have much problem with it. It does seem funny to me that some > > > >> think we have free will to decide whether to burn in hell forever if we > > > >> can't endure torment or torturous circumstances, just funny. It starts > > > >> sounding like the Jinh, or some who swear the oath not to lie, mostly > > > >> technicalities as one could get someone else to do it for them- perhaps > > > >> one could even die well in that case. Hope your Father Creator isn't > > > >> like that, that would frankly suck IMO. > > > > >> Is the 'Father Creator' from a formal belief system, which one if so? > > > > >> ps. the ratios were pulled out of thin air ;-) > > > > >>> On Jan 12, 7:27 am, iam deheretic<[email protected] > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > >>> > Pol. I think that is only an illusion. What happens if death > > > >>> is > > > >>> not as it > > > >>> > is often presented but rather are resurrection it a totally > > > >>> different life > > > >>> > determined by how you responded to this life. and there are > > > >>> some natural > > > >>> > laws that apply whether you admit to them or not. and > > > >>> everyone is > > > >>> > accountable. Also when you commit suicide you deprive the > > > >>> world > > > >>> of your > > > >>> > gifts. Like all concepts there are exceptions and those are > > > >>> dealt with on a > > > >>> > case by case basis. As a whole I would not count on being the > > > >>> exemption. > > > >>> > Allan > > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, pol.science kid > > > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>wrote: > > > >>> > > i think the decision to not live is an active decision..i > > > >>> think it is the > > > >>> > > only decision you do make...a free decision..a > > > >>> rebellion...its > > > >>> you.. > > > >>> > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:58 PM, RP Singh<[email protected] > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > >>> > >> When a man is under depression he tries to escape pain by > > > >>> committing > > > >>> > >> suicide , but does he really escape pain? No he increases > > > >>> it > > > >>> hundredfold. > > > >>> > >> The pain and sorrow that his family and friends feel at > > > >>> his > > > >>> demise is > > > >>> > >> actually a pain that is experienced by that individual. > > > >>> Escapism is no > > > >>> > >> remedy , the only way is to struggle and bear through all > > > >>> hardships. To > > > >>> > >> fight throughout is the only way and as death will > > > >>> eventually > > > >>> come, why > > > >>> > >> prepone it. > > > >>> > > -- > > > >>> > > \--/ Peace > > > >>> > -- > > > >>> > ( > > > >>> > ) > > > >>> > I_D Allan > > > >>> > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > > > >>> > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text > > > >>> - > > > >>> > - Show quoted text - > > > >>> -- > > > >>> ( > > > >>> ) > > > >>> I_D Allan > > > >>> If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > > > >>> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
