I thought I wrote depression is like a tantrum- suicide is a different matter completely and both are states/acts I am eager to understand. There are grades of depression from transitory to clinical but I have also observed depression being used as a weapon or excuse rather like a child holding his breath or refusing to eat or talk and it may bloom into something the will cannot control.//Was reminded also of SAD that affects people living in northern climates with short days and lack of sunshine during the winter months- the treatment for that has been a lightbox- having windows facing south also helps- it corrects the brain eventually.After reading yesterday about the wheel, rack and guillotine one can only hope for a peaceful death in the world of men. Some news stories noted the topic today- a young female artist and that surgeons think a lot about suicide but reason their way out.
On Jan 18, 3:20 pm, restless <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello everyone > its been awhile. This is a topic I know alot about. There is a > multitude of reasons for suicide, chemical imbalance, loss of a child, > unbearable physical pain. The pain of being a financial and emotional > burden on loved ones, being raised with the inability to cope with > life, abuse in all its forms. To say that suicide is a tantrum > trivializes the person and what they have gone thru. Thought processes > override what it will do to your family, what awaits you on the other > side concerning God. Society dictates shame for a family in the wake > of a suicide, the idea that the person is weak thus the family that > spawned them must also be weak. Was it heroism when the zealots of > masada committed mass suicide rather than be taken and used as roman > slaves? Or cowardice. Everything that happens to us in our lives > become ingrained in our souls, good and bad, negativity can be a > reason but it is only one of many. There are different forms of > depression and most people can be treated with medications and > therapy's but sometimes nothing works, depression can be genetic. I > know someone who refused to get her daughter help after her son was > killed and her daughter wasnt improving after the appropriate amount > of time. Why because she was worried what people would think; Unless > you have walked in someone's shoes you have no way of knowing at what > depth someones pain is. It is hard for me to relate to the stockmarket > crash and men jumping out windows to their death, I am not able to > understand those dynamics, was it because of greed/? The thought of > being poor was too overwhelming? It is easy for us to judge things we > do not understand, for us to make things simplistic, Is the person who > commits heinous acts and when they get caught kill themselves doing > their family a favour when they kill themselves, Is it understandable > when you face life in prison to kill yourself as some people have > done, > > On Jan 18, 4:53 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The escape has been religion which promises an afterlife and that has > > had an enormous impact on human behavior. The other escape has been > > worldly fame of some sort to land one in a history book or part of > > some Canon- music, literature,etc. I think it creates a split psyche. > > Render unto Caesar/God kind of tension. Even family memories are > > limited, in most cases, to a generation or two. I think we dread death > > beacuse we might feel unfinished in some way and there is no way to > > retrieve the experience of life from the start- like that saying "if I > > knew then what I know now". Just an opinion. > > > On Jan 18, 5:36 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > Heh yeah death and taxes, as the saying goes. > > > > I find the notion of death as taboo very strange, I mean there is > > > literaly no escapeing death. > > > > On Jan 18, 3:06 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 1/17/2011 8:08 AM, [email protected] wrote:> Ash, > > > > > > You say that 'it would be a greater waste to forego potential growth > > > > > and deprive both oneself and > > > > > community of the fruits of it.' > > > > > > I suppose then the oprative word here is potential. Shrouded in the > > > > > unkown future as all potiential must be, then the truth is we just > > > > > have no way of knowing if a persons potiantial is towards great harm > > > > > or benifit for them selves and their community. > > > > > > So this is not really a call that you or I or anybody can make with > > > > > any degree of certianty. We are still left then with the individuals > > > > > right to determine his own life or death. > > > > > I could agree to that, even more so if those around them can see it as > > > > meeting their fate head on. The US culture seems to take death as taboo, > > > > but there are still grit iron people around who would be proud to have > > > > worked or fought to their dying breath, or something anything other than > > > > going out with a whimper even if it is just to stare death in the face > > > > at the last moment. Uncertainty the only certainty then? > > > > > > On Jan 16, 5:17 am, Ash<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> On 1/14/2011 2:09 AM, iam deheretic wrote: > > > > > >>> Interesting question Lee > > > > >>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM, [email protected] > > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > >>> Hey Allan, > > > > >>> But when you die a natural death do you not also deprive the > > > > >>> world of > > > > >>> your gifts? > > > > >>> My personal opinion, I think this world is kind of a trial period > > > > >>> in > > > > >>> which we respond to the situations that surround us. The object of > > > > >>> life is find and get to know the Father Creator and the situations > > > > >>> that occur in our life bring us to the awareness of his existence. > > > > >>> To > > > > >>> me that is the most important thing in life. Then life becomes a > > > > >>> celebration (including the difficult times) which is shared with > > > > >>> others,,so they too can find and get to know the Father Creator. > > > > >>> To commit suicide is a very egoistic thing in a lot of cases and > > > > >>> when > > > > >>> one suddenly realizes there is a God.. then you have a problem and > > > > >>> I > > > > >>> think in most cases they turn into their ego and are of little value > > > > >>> to the rest of life. Now there are some cases where medically > > > > >>> prolonging life is just as wrong. > > > > >>> This probably makes no sense. > > > > >>> Allan > > > > >> It makes a lot of sense, being invested in something greater than > > > > >> oneself (or immediate desires/challenges) can tap into a limitless > > > > >> potential for overcoming. I've heard of people coming to very deep > > > > >> insights into the meaning of things and ability to control how they > > > > >> 'see' their pain in extreme circumstances. > > > > > >> "But when you die a natural death do you not also deprive the world > > > > >> of > > > > >> your gifts?" > > > > > >> I've been thinking in terms of waste, all else aside it would be a > > > > >> greater waste to forego potential growth and deprive both oneself and > > > > >> community of the fruits of it. > > > > > >> "To commit suicide is a very egoistic thing in a lot of cases and > > > > >> when > > > > >> one suddenly realizes there is a God.. then you have a problem " > > > > > >> -and in the cases where it is not an egoistic thing you realize > > > > >> there is > > > > >> no God? Just kidding! > > > > > >> For me God was a big problem in my youth, it was not until I > > > > >> discarded > > > > >> my conditioned alignments (full apostasy took some time) and studied > > > > >> a > > > > >> lot about anthropology, metaphysics and philosophy that the concept > > > > >> became what it should have been when I needed it then- inspiring of > > > > >> hope. Trying to believe can be hell, but I think the brain is wired > > > > >> to > > > > >> desire or believe good things so it probably works for 9/10. The > > > > >> 1/10, I > > > > >> guess are rotten apples. Not to identify you as either one Allan I > > > > >> wouldn't presume what/where your beliefs come from. However, I don't > > > > >> think the God I'd invent (which I believe we have the full right to > > > > >> do) > > > > >> would have much problem with it. It does seem funny to me that some > > > > >> think we have free will to decide whether to burn in hell forever if > > > > >> we > > > > >> can't endure torment or torturous circumstances, just funny. It > > > > >> starts > > > > >> sounding like the Jinh, or some who swear the oath not to lie, mostly > > > > >> technicalities as one could get someone else to do it for them- > > > > >> perhaps > > > > >> one could even die well in that case. Hope your Father Creator isn't > > > > >> like that, that would frankly suck IMO. > > > > > >> Is the 'Father Creator' from a formal belief system, which one if so? > > > > > >> ps. the ratios were pulled out of thin air ;-) > > > > > >>> On Jan 12, 7:27 am, iam deheretic<[email protected] > > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > >>> > Pol. I think that is only an illusion. What happens if > > > > >>> death is > > > > >>> not as it > > > > >>> > is often presented but rather are resurrection it a totally > > > > >>> different life > > > > >>> > determined by how you responded to this life. and there are > > > > >>> some natural > > > > >>> > laws that apply whether you admit to them or not. and > > > > >>> everyone is > > > > >>> > accountable. Also when you commit suicide you deprive the > > > > >>> world > > > > >>> of your > > > > >>> > gifts. Like all concepts there are exceptions and those are > > > > >>> dealt with on a > > > > >>> > case by case basis. As a whole I would not count on being > > > > >>> the > > > > >>> exemption. > > > > >>> > Allan > > > > >>> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, pol.science kid > > > > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>wrote: > > > > >>> > > i think the decision to not live is an active decision..i > > > > >>> think it is the > > > > >>> > > only decision you do make...a free decision..a > > > > >>> rebellion...its > > > > >>> you.. > > > > >>> > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:58 PM, RP Singh<[email protected] > > > > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > >>> > >> When a man is under depression he tries to escape pain > > > > >>> by > > > > >>> committing > > > > >>> > >> suicide , but does he really escape pain? No he > > > > >>> increases it > > > > >>> hundredfold. > > > > >>> > >> The pain and sorrow that his family and friends feel at > > > > >>> his > > > > >>> demise is > > > > >>> > >> actually a pain that is experienced by that individual. > > > > >>> Escapism is no > > > > >>> > >> remedy , the only way is to struggle and bear > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
