Yes indeed Allan, That is what I said, well more or less, in a roundabaout way. Many thanks to you for your clarity and brevity.
On Mar 1, 6:51 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > with rare exception Lee I think in the case of Scientology it is for the > money but you need control to get the money.. In most cases the founders > of beliefs are not interested in money.. it is those that follow which use > beliefs as a hussle > Allan > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:27 PM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hey Rigsy, > > > Meh! Don't bother me none mate. > > > I will say that I simply do not belife that mankind has 'created' a > > religion for the sole porpose of control, perhaps we will see some in > > the future and perhaps we can level that charge at the Scientologist > > door, even then I think it is more about making money than control. > > > I will admit that many have used and continues to do so, religoin of > > any ilke to control, but that is far differant from the oringinators > > intended porpouse. Yep I really do belive that all religoin can get > > one to God. > > > Evil people we have in plenty, and I think there is a lot of > > differance between the an original goal and an userption. > > > Like My Blair, taking us to war in the search of WMD, use of the > > public has forever been a gameplan of the powerfull, and any tool and > > every tool will they use. > > > You say we cannot discount the human reasons that religoins have > > existed, I would say we cannot discount the human propensity to twist > > things for our own ends. > > > On Feb 27, 5:24 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I wish no disrespect to your beliefs but there have been thousands of > > > religions during man's history- many claiming absolute truth about God/ > > > gods. I do not believe all faiths lead to holiness/God as there have > > > been too many cruel/evil religions. We cannot discount the human > > > reasons that religions have existed: cohesion of a group, control of > > > behavior, a spur to conquest, an opiate and so on. A kind, loving > > > atheist is also holy in humanistic terms. Religions change or break > > > away to adapt to changing social/economic realities- that would be > > > understood by Darwin, I believe. > > > > On Feb 25, 7:20 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > Hahah Rigsy. > > > > > Sikhi in a nut shell is this. > > > > > There is but one absolute truth and it is God. > > > > > We are not seprerated from God, but live in the dualistic belife that > > > > we are, to realise this one only needs to keep God in the forefront of > > > > the mind at all times.(Which is why we chant vaherguru - or wonderous > > > > God(losely translated)) > > > > > By doing this one eventualy becomes God conciose, rather than man > > > > conciouse(Manmukh) and thus their actions become what I suppose we can > > > > call 'good' > > > > > So there is no call to doing good as doing good comes as a natural > > > > occourance of trying to become God conciouse(Gurmukh) > > > > > You should then be able to infer much from the above, perhaps not the > > > > least being, there is no heaven nor hell, as there is no one true > > > > faith, all faiths may 'lead' to God. > > > > > On Feb 25, 12:11 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am impressed by what I read of Sikhism. After a couple of books at > > > > > home, I turned to Wikipedia. I remembered about the Golden Temple and > > > > > some other events but they were historical or news items. > > > > > > I, too, am a "slow adapter". > > > > > > I felt badly about jumping from the particular to the universal > > > > > regarding some personal experiences for there were positives as well > > > > > as negatives. It reminded me I still feel hurt and anger over some > > > > > matters and will try harder to pray for understanding. Maybe God > > > > > needed my attention! :-) Just kidding... > > > > > > On Feb 23, 9:18 am, "[email protected]" < > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > > There is nowt to forgive my friend. > > > > > > > Ignorance is not a sin rather a nateural state. We are all > > ignorant > > > > > > about many things, untill we take the time to learn, and part of > > the > > > > > > learning is in the asking. > > > > > > > Realiseing all the time that when we speak in part or on the whole > > > > > > about religious belifes we are not dealing in emprical fact but > > > > > > beliefe. Some of which we can apply logical thought to, some.... > > well > > > > > > not so much. Then I'll say it is my belife that the soul inhabites > > > > > > the body upon conception, or perhaps it is always present, rather > > as > > > > > > RP suggest as part of the pervadidness of God? > > > > > > > All of us are redemable, in the eys of God if not in the eyes of > > each > > > > > > other. > > > > > > > I'm a lover of nature(if this is indeed the context which you > > mean?) > > > > > > it's hard not to be coming from the Pagan background that I do. > > I'm > > > > > > also an admirerer of a certin Mr Darwin, and believe in an absolute > > > > > > sense that we arived here via the process of evolution. > > > > > > > So humanity is not somehow seperate from nature but very much a > > part > > > > > > of it. Indeed with our abilities it is clear to see how much sway > > we > > > > > > have over the lives of the other animals that we share this planet > > > > > > with. > > > > > > > As to Sikhi, ahh I'm not a good Sikh. Only really because Sikhi > > agrees > > > > > > with many of my personal belifes about God and Gods plan. > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2:43 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply and am thinking about it... > > > > > > > > I think this brings up the question of potential and actuality. > > (Does > > > > > > > the fetus have a soul, for instance. Does an evil person retain > > the > > > > > > > possibility of redemption- how does this relate to religious and > > civil > > > > > > > laws? Etc.) > > > > > > > > Yes- I just get my hopes up and then...HIstory is indeed a dance > > back > > > > > > > and forth but so is an individual life. We are certainly living > > in > > > > > > > "interesting times" (Chinese wish that can be taken two ways.) > > > > > > > > My "man" just cleared another large snowfall- I think we are up > > to 72" > > > > > > > and may hit 90" by the end of March. So my spirit is curious but > > my > > > > > > > mind is distracted. :-) > > > > > > > > How does Nature figure into your beliefs? I admit I am quite > > ignorant > > > > > > > about the Sikh faith and tend to limit it to Punjab and turbans. > > > > > > > Please forgive my poor education- thus far. > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 5:01 am, "[email protected]" < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey RP, > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > I see a disctiction though. > > > > > > > > > I belive that before anything existed there was only God. That > > is > > > > > > > > before the creation, before matter ther was only God, God in > > spirt. > > > > > > > > God created the creation from Gods self. That is God created > > matter > > > > > > > > from spirt, so yes I too belive that there exists not one iota > > of > > > > > > > > matter that does not contian the spirit of God. > > > > > > > > > It goes back to my original question though what is Soul? > > > > > > > > > Is soul simply spirit? > > > > > > > > > No, too much relgious dogma says that only humans can reach > > God, or if > > > > > > > > you like only humans have soul. So what is the portion of God > > or the > > > > > > > > propertie of God that is all pervading? Flour my freind. > > > > > > > > > All bread (matter) containes the spirt (flour) of God but not > > all > > > > > > > > bread (matter) containes the soul(yeast) of God. Humans are > > levend > > > > > > > > bread, all else is unlevend. > > > > > > > > > I say this because, as I have said too much dogma says it is > > so. As a > > > > > > > > religous man, I must place some of my belife structure on some > > > > > > > > religious dogma. > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 10:37 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is not an atom of matter that doesn't contain the > > Spirit , > > > > > > > > > rather everything and everyone is upheld by the spirit. Hence > > the > > > > > > > > > basis of all whether animate or inanimate is the soul or the > > Spirit. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:26 PM, > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > > > > > > The point of my baking anology was to differantciat between > > Soul and > > > > > > > > > > Matter. Yes indeed other raising agents are to be found, > > and yes > > > > > > > > > > indeed some prefer unlevend bread. Bread is still bread > > made out of > > > > > > > > > > some form of flour. > > > > > > > > > > > Sticking to this then in answer to your questions. > > > > > > > > > > > If the yeast is the soul and the flour the matter we can > > easily see > > > > > > > > > > that not all matter containes soul, although it is still > > thought of as > > > > > > > > > > the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > Evilness stems not from the yeast but from the flour. That > > is not > > > > > > > > > > from the spirt of God but the minds of mankind. > > > > > > > > > > > I am both a theists and a humanist, I see no contradiction > > in this. > > > > > > > > > > So yes humanity has progressed for good or ill. How do I > > measure it? > > > > > > > > > > Probably like you do, in many ways. How we treat the worst > > off > > > > > > > > > > amongst us, and our elderly, what levels of technolgy we > > have and how > > > > > > > > > > it is used, our philosophis and where they lead us both > > theistic and > > > > > > > > > > secular, as I say many differant ways. > > > > > > > > > > > Hahah yes it does seem that religous dogma clouds > > rationality, > > > > > > > > > > sometimes, for some people, but I would argue that it is > > strict > > > > > > > > > > adhereance without questioning the worth of such dogma is > > to blame, > > > > > > > > > > rather than dogma itself. > > > > > > > > > > > History shows us circles, for those who wish to look. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
