Was it Calvin who equated worldly success/money with God's favor/ blessing? I forget. Those paintings of stout/obese :-) merchants come to mind but also Midas and the Biblical tubby trying to get through the eye of the needle. Charity is the antidote.
As to your former reply I was thinking God is the ultimate last resort whom we can praise or blame depending on circumstances. I do feel history illustrates that religion or ruling/economic theories have been used in ways I mentioned and seeking a religion or god is not a natural inclination but one that is taught- perhaps it is a harnassing of our natural sense of wonder or our realization of the power of Nature and our definite demise leading to theories of an afterlife/ paradise. The Beatitudes reward those whom the world has not, for example. And, the very powerful Papacy was quite temporal and militaristic with enormous political clout- which has diminished, of course- but it wasn't so very long ago where it still asserted its power over individual members. On Mar 1, 5:31 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Gabs, > > Or it could not be. I think that depends on how the individual views > money. > > On Mar 1, 8:38 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Ah, but money is just a means to exercise power and influence others. It > > compensates physical strength to a certain degree. In my view it is the > > direction of human development the so called founders of new beliefs have > > been successful in altering. That's how I also understand vamadevananda's > > activities. > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 7:51 AM, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > with rare exception Lee I think in the case of Scientology it is for the > > > money but you need control to get the money.. In most cases the founders > > > of beliefs are not interested in money.. it is those that follow which use > > > beliefs as a hussle > > > Allan > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:27 PM, [email protected] < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hey Rigsy, > > > >> Meh! Don't bother me none mate. > > > >> I will say that I simply do not belife that mankind has 'created' a > > >> religion for the sole porpose of control, perhaps we will see some in > > >> the future and perhaps we can level that charge at the Scientologist > > >> door, even then I think it is more about making money than control. > > > >> I will admit that many have used and continues to do so, religoin of > > >> any ilke to control, but that is far differant from the oringinators > > >> intended porpouse. Yep I really do belive that all religoin can get > > >> one to God. > > > >> Evil people we have in plenty, and I think there is a lot of > > >> differance between the an original goal and an userption. > > > >> Like My Blair, taking us to war in the search of WMD, use of the > > >> public has forever been a gameplan of the powerfull, and any tool and > > >> every tool will they use. > > > >> You say we cannot discount the human reasons that religoins have > > >> existed, I would say we cannot discount the human propensity to twist > > >> things for our own ends. > > > >> On Feb 27, 5:24 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > I wish no disrespect to your beliefs but there have been thousands of > > >> > religions during man's history- many claiming absolute truth about God/ > > >> > gods. I do not believe all faiths lead to holiness/God as there have > > >> > been too many cruel/evil religions. We cannot discount the human > > >> > reasons that religions have existed: cohesion of a group, control of > > >> > behavior, a spur to conquest, an opiate and so on. A kind, loving > > >> > atheist is also holy in humanistic terms. Religions change or break > > >> > away to adapt to changing social/economic realities- that would be > > >> > understood by Darwin, I believe. > > > >> > On Feb 25, 7:20 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > Hahah Rigsy. > > > >> > > Sikhi in a nut shell is this. > > > >> > > There is but one absolute truth and it is God. > > > >> > > We are not seprerated from God, but live in the dualistic belife that > > >> > > we are, to realise this one only needs to keep God in the forefront > > >> > > of > > >> > > the mind at all times.(Which is why we chant vaherguru - or wonderous > > >> > > God(losely translated)) > > > >> > > By doing this one eventualy becomes God conciose, rather than man > > >> > > conciouse(Manmukh) and thus their actions become what I suppose we > > >> > > can > > >> > > call 'good' > > > >> > > So there is no call to doing good as doing good comes as a natural > > >> > > occourance of trying to become God conciouse(Gurmukh) > > > >> > > You should then be able to infer much from the above, perhaps not the > > >> > > least being, there is no heaven nor hell, as there is no one true > > >> > > faith, all faiths may 'lead' to God. > > > >> > > On Feb 25, 12:11 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > I am impressed by what I read of Sikhism. After a couple of books > > >> > > > at > > >> > > > home, I turned to Wikipedia. I remembered about the Golden Temple > > >> and > > >> > > > some other events but they were historical or news items. > > > >> > > > I, too, am a "slow adapter". > > > >> > > > I felt badly about jumping from the particular to the universal > > >> > > > regarding some personal experiences for there were positives as > > >> > > > well > > >> > > > as negatives. It reminded me I still feel hurt and anger over some > > >> > > > matters and will try harder to pray for understanding. Maybe God > > >> > > > needed my attention! :-) Just kidding... > > > >> > > > On Feb 23, 9:18 am, "[email protected]" < > > >> [email protected]> > > >> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > >> > > > > There is nowt to forgive my friend. > > > >> > > > > Ignorance is not a sin rather a nateural state. We are all > > >> ignorant > > >> > > > > about many things, untill we take the time to learn, and part of > > >> the > > >> > > > > learning is in the asking. > > > >> > > > > Realiseing all the time that when we speak in part or on the > > >> > > > > whole > > >> > > > > about religious belifes we are not dealing in emprical fact but > > >> > > > > beliefe. Some of which we can apply logical thought to, some.... > > >> well > > >> > > > > not so much. Then I'll say it is my belife that the soul > > >> inhabites > > >> > > > > the body upon conception, or perhaps it is always present, rather > > >> as > > >> > > > > RP suggest as part of the pervadidness of God? > > > >> > > > > All of us are redemable, in the eys of God if not in the eyes of > > >> each > > >> > > > > other. > > > >> > > > > I'm a lover of nature(if this is indeed the context which you > > >> mean?) > > >> > > > > it's hard not to be coming from the Pagan background that I do. > > >> I'm > > >> > > > > also an admirerer of a certin Mr Darwin, and believe in an > > >> absolute > > >> > > > > sense that we arived here via the process of evolution. > > > >> > > > > So humanity is not somehow seperate from nature but very much a > > >> part > > >> > > > > of it. Indeed with our abilities it is clear to see how much > > >> > > > > sway > > >> we > > >> > > > > have over the lives of the other animals that we share this > > >> > > > > planet > > >> > > > > with. > > > >> > > > > As to Sikhi, ahh I'm not a good Sikh. Only really because Sikhi > > >> agrees > > >> > > > > with many of my personal belifes about God and Gods plan. > > > >> > > > > On Feb 23, 2:43 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > Thank you for your reply and am thinking about it... > > > >> > > > > > I think this brings up the question of potential and actuality. > > >> (Does > > >> > > > > > the fetus have a soul, for instance. Does an evil person retain > > >> the > > >> > > > > > possibility of redemption- how does this relate to religious > > >> > > > > > and > > >> civil > > >> > > > > > laws? Etc.) > > > >> > > > > > Yes- I just get my hopes up and then...HIstory is indeed a > > >> > > > > > dance > > >> back > > >> > > > > > and forth but so is an individual life. We are certainly living > > >> in > > >> > > > > > "interesting times" (Chinese wish that can be taken two ways.) > > > >> > > > > > My "man" just cleared another large snowfall- I think we are up > > >> to 72" > > >> > > > > > and may hit 90" by the end of March. So my spirit is curious > > >> > > > > > but > > >> my > > >> > > > > > mind is distracted. :-) > > > >> > > > > > How does Nature figure into your beliefs? I admit I am quite > > >> ignorant > > >> > > > > > about the Sikh faith and tend to limit it to Punjab and > > >> > > > > > turbans. > > >> > > > > > Please forgive my poor education- thus far. > > > >> > > > > > On Feb 23, 5:01 am, "[email protected]" < > > >> [email protected]> > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > Hey RP, > > > >> > > > > > > Yeah I get what you are saying. > > > >> > > > > > > I see a disctiction though. > > > >> > > > > > > I belive that before anything existed there was only God. > > >> That is > > >> > > > > > > before the creation, before matter ther was only God, God in > > >> spirt. > > >> > > > > > > God created the creation from Gods self. That is God created > > >> matter > > >> > > > > > > from spirt, so yes I too belive that there exists not one > > >> > > > > > > iota > > >> of > > >> > > > > > > matter that does not contian the spirit of God. > > > >> > > > > > > It goes back to my original question though what is Soul? > > > >> > > > > > > Is soul simply spirit? > > > >> > > > > > > No, too much relgious dogma says that only humans can reach > > >> God, or if > > >> > > > > > > you like only humans have soul. So what is the portion of > > >> > > > > > > God > > >> or the > > >> > > > > > > propertie of God that is all pervading? Flour my freind. > > > >> > > > > > > All bread (matter) containes the spirt (flour) of God but not > > >> all > > >> > > > > > > bread (matter) containes the soul(yeast) of God. Humans are > > >> levend > > >> > > > > > > bread, all else is unlevend. > > > >> > > > > > > I say this because, as I have said too much dogma says it is > > >> so. As a > > >> > > > > > > religous man, I must place some of my belife structure on > > >> > > > > > > some > > >> > > > > > > religious dogma. > > > >> > > > > > > On Feb 23, 10:37 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > There is not an atom of matter that doesn't contain the > > >> Spirit , > > >> > > > > > > > rather everything and everyone is upheld by the spirit. > > >> Hence the > > >> > > > > > > > basis of all whether animate or inanimate is the soul or > > >> > > > > > > > the > > >> Spirit. > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:26 PM, > > >> [email protected] > > > >> > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > >> > > > > > > > > The point of my baking anology was to differantciat > > >> between Soul and > > >> > > > > > > > > Matter. Yes indeed other raising agents are to be found, > > >> and yes > > >> > > > > > > > > indeed some prefer unlevend bread. Bread is still bread > > >> made out of > > >> > > > > > > > > some form of flour. > > > >> > > > > > > > > Sticking to this then in answer to your questions. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
