with rare exception Lee I think in the case of Scientology it is for the money but you need control to get the money.. In most cases the founders of beliefs are not interested in money.. it is those that follow which use beliefs as a hussle Allan
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:27 PM, [email protected] < [email protected]> wrote: > Hey Rigsy, > > Meh! Don't bother me none mate. > > I will say that I simply do not belife that mankind has 'created' a > religion for the sole porpose of control, perhaps we will see some in > the future and perhaps we can level that charge at the Scientologist > door, even then I think it is more about making money than control. > > I will admit that many have used and continues to do so, religoin of > any ilke to control, but that is far differant from the oringinators > intended porpouse. Yep I really do belive that all religoin can get > one to God. > > Evil people we have in plenty, and I think there is a lot of > differance between the an original goal and an userption. > > Like My Blair, taking us to war in the search of WMD, use of the > public has forever been a gameplan of the powerfull, and any tool and > every tool will they use. > > You say we cannot discount the human reasons that religoins have > existed, I would say we cannot discount the human propensity to twist > things for our own ends. > > > > On Feb 27, 5:24 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > I wish no disrespect to your beliefs but there have been thousands of > > religions during man's history- many claiming absolute truth about God/ > > gods. I do not believe all faiths lead to holiness/God as there have > > been too many cruel/evil religions. We cannot discount the human > > reasons that religions have existed: cohesion of a group, control of > > behavior, a spur to conquest, an opiate and so on. A kind, loving > > atheist is also holy in humanistic terms. Religions change or break > > away to adapt to changing social/economic realities- that would be > > understood by Darwin, I believe. > > > > On Feb 25, 7:20 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hahah Rigsy. > > > > > Sikhi in a nut shell is this. > > > > > There is but one absolute truth and it is God. > > > > > We are not seprerated from God, but live in the dualistic belife that > > > we are, to realise this one only needs to keep God in the forefront of > > > the mind at all times.(Which is why we chant vaherguru - or wonderous > > > God(losely translated)) > > > > > By doing this one eventualy becomes God conciose, rather than man > > > conciouse(Manmukh) and thus their actions become what I suppose we can > > > call 'good' > > > > > So there is no call to doing good as doing good comes as a natural > > > occourance of trying to become God conciouse(Gurmukh) > > > > > You should then be able to infer much from the above, perhaps not the > > > least being, there is no heaven nor hell, as there is no one true > > > faith, all faiths may 'lead' to God. > > > > > On Feb 25, 12:11 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am impressed by what I read of Sikhism. After a couple of books at > > > > home, I turned to Wikipedia. I remembered about the Golden Temple and > > > > some other events but they were historical or news items. > > > > > > I, too, am a "slow adapter". > > > > > > I felt badly about jumping from the particular to the universal > > > > regarding some personal experiences for there were positives as well > > > > as negatives. It reminded me I still feel hurt and anger over some > > > > matters and will try harder to pray for understanding. Maybe God > > > > needed my attention! :-) Just kidding... > > > > > > On Feb 23, 9:18 am, "[email protected]" < > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > > There is nowt to forgive my friend. > > > > > > > Ignorance is not a sin rather a nateural state. We are all > ignorant > > > > > about many things, untill we take the time to learn, and part of > the > > > > > learning is in the asking. > > > > > > > Realiseing all the time that when we speak in part or on the whole > > > > > about religious belifes we are not dealing in emprical fact but > > > > > beliefe. Some of which we can apply logical thought to, some.... > well > > > > > not so much. Then I'll say it is my belife that the soul inhabites > > > > > the body upon conception, or perhaps it is always present, rather > as > > > > > RP suggest as part of the pervadidness of God? > > > > > > > All of us are redemable, in the eys of God if not in the eyes of > each > > > > > other. > > > > > > > I'm a lover of nature(if this is indeed the context which you > mean?) > > > > > it's hard not to be coming from the Pagan background that I do. > I'm > > > > > also an admirerer of a certin Mr Darwin, and believe in an absolute > > > > > sense that we arived here via the process of evolution. > > > > > > > So humanity is not somehow seperate from nature but very much a > part > > > > > of it. Indeed with our abilities it is clear to see how much sway > we > > > > > have over the lives of the other animals that we share this planet > > > > > with. > > > > > > > As to Sikhi, ahh I'm not a good Sikh. Only really because Sikhi > agrees > > > > > with many of my personal belifes about God and Gods plan. > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2:43 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you for your reply and am thinking about it... > > > > > > > > I think this brings up the question of potential and actuality. > (Does > > > > > > the fetus have a soul, for instance. Does an evil person retain > the > > > > > > possibility of redemption- how does this relate to religious and > civil > > > > > > laws? Etc.) > > > > > > > > Yes- I just get my hopes up and then...HIstory is indeed a dance > back > > > > > > and forth but so is an individual life. We are certainly living > in > > > > > > "interesting times" (Chinese wish that can be taken two ways.) > > > > > > > > My "man" just cleared another large snowfall- I think we are up > to 72" > > > > > > and may hit 90" by the end of March. So my spirit is curious but > my > > > > > > mind is distracted. :-) > > > > > > > > How does Nature figure into your beliefs? I admit I am quite > ignorant > > > > > > about the Sikh faith and tend to limit it to Punjab and turbans. > > > > > > Please forgive my poor education- thus far. > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 5:01 am, "[email protected]" < > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey RP, > > > > > > > > > Yeah I get what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > I see a disctiction though. > > > > > > > > > I belive that before anything existed there was only God. That > is > > > > > > > before the creation, before matter ther was only God, God in > spirt. > > > > > > > God created the creation from Gods self. That is God created > matter > > > > > > > from spirt, so yes I too belive that there exists not one iota > of > > > > > > > matter that does not contian the spirit of God. > > > > > > > > > It goes back to my original question though what is Soul? > > > > > > > > > Is soul simply spirit? > > > > > > > > > No, too much relgious dogma says that only humans can reach > God, or if > > > > > > > you like only humans have soul. So what is the portion of God > or the > > > > > > > propertie of God that is all pervading? Flour my freind. > > > > > > > > > All bread (matter) containes the spirt (flour) of God but not > all > > > > > > > bread (matter) containes the soul(yeast) of God. Humans are > levend > > > > > > > bread, all else is unlevend. > > > > > > > > > I say this because, as I have said too much dogma says it is > so. As a > > > > > > > religous man, I must place some of my belife structure on some > > > > > > > religious dogma. > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 10:37 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There is not an atom of matter that doesn't contain the > Spirit , > > > > > > > > rather everything and everyone is upheld by the spirit. Hence > the > > > > > > > > basis of all whether animate or inanimate is the soul or the > Spirit. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:26 PM, > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > > > > > > The point of my baking anology was to differantciat between > Soul and > > > > > > > > > Matter. Yes indeed other raising agents are to be found, > and yes > > > > > > > > > indeed some prefer unlevend bread. Bread is still bread > made out of > > > > > > > > > some form of flour. > > > > > > > > > > > Sticking to this then in answer to your questions. > > > > > > > > > > > If the yeast is the soul and the flour the matter we can > easily see > > > > > > > > > that not all matter containes soul, although it is still > thought of as > > > > > > > > > the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > Evilness stems not from the yeast but from the flour. That > is not > > > > > > > > > from the spirt of God but the minds of mankind. > > > > > > > > > > > I am both a theists and a humanist, I see no contradiction > in this. > > > > > > > > > So yes humanity has progressed for good or ill. How do I > measure it? > > > > > > > > > Probably like you do, in many ways. How we treat the worst > off > > > > > > > > > amongst us, and our elderly, what levels of technolgy we > have and how > > > > > > > > > it is used, our philosophis and where they lead us both > theistic and > > > > > > > > > secular, as I say many differant ways. > > > > > > > > > > > Hahah yes it does seem that religous dogma clouds > rationality, > > > > > > > > > sometimes, for some people, but I would argue that it is > strict > > > > > > > > > adhereance without questioning the worth of such dogma is > to blame, > > > > > > > > > rather than dogma itself. > > > > > > > > > > > History shows us circles, for those who wish to look. It > seems we > > > > > > > > > move forward, and then the same old shit happens, and > around we go > > > > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 1:43 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Animals can have personalities. People can have a herd > mentality > > > > > > > > >> lacking intelligence, individualism and uniqueness. > > > > > > > > > > >> Is the soul from a creator? How do you explain evil- do > you admit > > > > > > > > >> there are evil souls/forces? Is the soul/creator split > between good > > > > > > > > >> and evil? (This was a heresy of the Early Church but a > doctrine of > > > > > > > > >> Zoroastrianism.) > > > > > > > > > > >> Baking powder and soda also create a rise in flour. Some > peole prefer > > > > > > > > >> flat breads. :-) > > > > > > > > > > >> Civilization might progress on the basis of other > criteria- there was > > > > > > > > >> a book/program about germs and steel but I forget the > author and exact > > > > > > > > >> title. How do you measure the progress of the human race- > or, do you > > > > > > > > >> see progress or merely an illusion created by the > Industrial > > > > > > > > >> Revolution and technology and into whose hands/minds is > this progress > > > > > > > > >> steered? Or does religious dogma suspend critical > thinking in order > > > > > > > > >> to unify/pacify the populace into a common belief system? > Same with > > > > > > > > >> political/economic theories. > > > > > > > > > > >> How has all this "been working" for the human race > according to > > > > > > > > >> history? > > > > > > > > > > >> On Feb 22, 4:40 am, "[email protected]" < > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > Hah yes I agree that it does appear a little > contradictory. > > > > > > > > > > >> > Let me attempt to explian it this way. > > > > > > > > > > >> > You are a uniqeue individual, differant from me, and > indeed every > > > > > > > > >> > other human on the planet. What is the root of this? > > > > > > > > > > >> > It is > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- ( ) I_D Allan If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
