Well, i was hoping to make the Holy See an offer it can't refuse :) I was fortunate to see a collection of Raphael's works at the National Gallery in London a few years back; his imagination is truly captivating. I can't really comment on his moral compass; i'm just not qualified, i'm afraid :)
Guess you're right, we cannot shut ourselves off from the world around us; but i'm not sure we're obliged to take in more than we need or want to (most of the time). It's not so much a call to solipsism, more a call to discernment. The "d's" sound like a great life balance to me :) On Jun 13, 12:12 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > And just how, pray tell, to you propose to wheedle that painting from > the Vatican? Besides, dear Paradox, it is a fresco! I also have a copy > of his "Madonna and Child" in my bedroom- sometimes she looks stern > and at other times, amused. A critic writes of Raphael- Taine: the > "unique blessing of a twofold education which, after showing him > Christian innocence and purity, made him feel pagan joy and strength." > Amen. > > No one has absolute freedom/liberty but there are degrees- relative to > the particulars of one's existence and one's desires. And there are > possible adaptations/solutions to culture clamps. One can go along to > being a recluse to committing suicide- quick or slow. We cannot avoid > being social animals, however- even a recluse needs groceries. :-) > > Those were just the "d's"... > > On Jun 13, 3:39 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Sounds like you have a serious living space indeed :) I'm saving up > > for the original; i expect to have enough just about when i'm wise > > enough to apply :) > > > Last i read Hume was for an undergrad political philosophy module many > > lives ago; thanks for the reference; i'll make sure i read the > > "Dialogues...". > > > I take your poiint about relative liberties, but wonder how relative > > and free our choiuces if we're "allowed" them; maybe that's the point > > you make about the "claustrophobia" of culture, and the trade off of > > freedoms for security (in an social sense)? > > > Hmm, dreams, delights, and duties...the 3 d's...so now we know about > > the 03 in rigsy03 :) > > > On Jun 12, 1:06 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I have a copy of that painting in my living room. My living room is a > > > serious space. :-) > > > > Re Hume: I took a grad course in literary criticism- it really took > > > me- that included some further handouts beyond the laborious > > > textbook= Hume's "Of the Standard of Taste" which I pulled from > > > basement files yesterday before I slogged through some passages of > > > Hume's "Dialogues on Natural Religion". The former still has sway and > > > sense- at least to me. I daresay we could live quite happily without > > > modern warfare, politics and culture which resembles a huge > > > contraption (I have forgotten the word for an evil, menacing machine) > > > but there are also great gifts of modern times so we have accepted the > > > trade-offs, it seems- at least we who have freedom and liberty are > > > allowed. > > > > The juggling: dreams, delights, duties. > > > > On Jun 12, 12:31 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Perhaps we're "just as deluded and misled" because we have all these > > > > communication tools, rigsy03 (not that we could do without them now); > > > > and maybe not enough time to "think" in the traditional sense. It's > > > > not nostalgia, btw; i'm not old enough to remember the School Of > > > > Athens :) > > > > > Yes, i know exactly what you mean about home and family; fundamentals > > > > first; long as we dont forget how to dream, eh? :) > > > > > On Jun 11, 9:18 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I wish it were so, paradox. We have all these communication tools and > > > > > are just as deluded and misled as the days of the herald and trumpet > > > > > in the square or the carrier pigeon. > > > > > > I think I had a subconscious goal that over-road (is this a word?) > > > > > other potentialities- a real home and children to raise. Of course, > > > > > there's more but that is another story..."Gone With the Breeze"? I'll > > > > > think about it tomorrow. :-) > > > > > > On Jun 11, 2:21 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Dont do it....please? We have enough of them already :) > > > > > > > On Jun 11, 7:09 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > A realist. :-) > > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2:54 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So, what are your choices, rigsy03? Go on, share...:) > > > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2:59 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > True. I sure wish I'd figure out what I want to be when I > > > > > > > > > grow up! :-) > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 11:45 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You may be on to something here, archytas. There is some > > > > > > > > > > evidence that > > > > > > > > > > we are "editors" of real time; we can never actually "live" > > > > > > > > > > a moment; > > > > > > > > > > when you add photon travel time to neural processing time, > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > referential mapping, to consciousness, you get a huge great > > > > > > > > > > big gap in > > > > > > > > > > human "agency". > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 5:07 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I often find myself thinking about trance states and how > > > > > > > > > > > we could spot > > > > > > > > > > > them. The classic for me is that we are merely vehicles > > > > > > > > > > > for our > > > > > > > > > > > machine-like genes something I find 'true' and highly > > > > > > > > > > > unlikely until I > > > > > > > > > > > switch the tv on. I believe both that we are tranced and > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > ejukation is part of it. Various herd and pack animals > > > > > > > > > > > are quite > > > > > > > > > > > clearly tranced in respect of leadership by > > > > > > > > > > > chemical-biological > > > > > > > > > > > means. We have some idea of the operation in humans. > > > > > > > > > > > The networks of > > > > > > > > > > > our held world-views are highly self-deceptive and not > > > > > > > > > > > really amenable > > > > > > > > > > > to 'facts'. When we look scientifically, we find 'cactus > > > > > > > > > > > structures' > > > > > > > > > > > of control - my sense is that 'spin' knows something of > > > > > > > > > > > this, but we > > > > > > > > > > > fear something that is evolving that would replace the > > > > > > > > > > > world view > > > > > > > > > > > levels we have that would not rely on trance. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 4:32 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're not being manipulated. You're going after > > > > > > > > > > > > something you really > > > > > > > > > > > > want. I think that's different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 8, 9:11 pm, Chuck Bowling > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure I can agree with the idea that education > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes us less > > > > > > > > > > > > > susceptible to manipulation. In some cases it may > > > > > > > > > > > > > even make us more > > > > > > > > > > > > > susceptible. Using myself as an example, I'm fairly > > > > > > > > > > > > > well educated with about > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 years of college but if you dangle the latest high > > > > > > > > > > > > > performance graphics > > > > > > > > > > > > > card or multi-core processor in front of me you'll > > > > > > > > > > > > > have me drooling like a > > > > > > > > > > > > > lobotomy patient in no time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 9:30 AM, rigsy03 > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In regards to manipulation by culture/ads and the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > advantage of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > education and it continuation in adult life, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would say it allows us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see through the obvious exaggeration, lack of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logic and attempt to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create an artificial want/need/desire. In fact, the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise is pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humorous but I do admit to having a few shopaholic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moments in my own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > life so I have also been gullible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 7, 10:15 pm, Chuck Bowling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hummm... For some reason I had the impression you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were male. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At any rate, I don't think education or economic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > status has much to do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our susceptibility. We can all be manipulated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into believing things that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aren't necessarily true. Take the social > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prerogative to stay one up on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > next door neighbors. Millions are spent on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commercial campaigns that try > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convince us that we should have a bigger TV, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > newer car, or better > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > furniture.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
