Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway, after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/ snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > Bingo ! * sounding the drums * > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... beauty, > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc. > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others. > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a > blow at its own foot ! > > > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus > > demonstrable facts. > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > It will still be more clever than the rest ! > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-) > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for > > specific > > > > > acts or purposes ... " > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey bee > > as a > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species pick > > up > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- > > patterns > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with money/ > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed > > to > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for > > specific > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, insight > > and > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the final > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or possible. > > Hard > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 year > > old > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for > > > > > > violinists. > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move to > > > > farming > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for those > > who > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The obvious > > > > issue > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work and > > > > life- > > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in their > > host > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they > > become > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in enslaved > > ant > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to the > > wider > > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and debt > > > > > > > peonage. > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on > > offer > > > > for > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The Chinese > > > > refer > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant People'. > > > > Some > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used to > > note > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew as > > work > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). My > > own > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that > > James > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining > > subjects > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than control > > > > fraud. > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most > > people > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role once I > > > > clear > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because no > > human > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems with > > our > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of year > > to > > > > have > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - soon > > my > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now done > > this > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering. > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to predict > > the > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in > > non-human > > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view of > > why a > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. > > I'll > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus ants > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire rebellion'? > > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the > > role > > > > (or a > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is a > > world > > > > with > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a challenge to > > > > > > undertake > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or outside > > our > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. These > > are > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being led > > > > becomes > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that as > > does > > > > the > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, > > corrupting > > > > as in > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared > > > > language > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can > > present a > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what > > impetus > > > > would > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and > > where, > > > > I've > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am exploring > > > > > > currently, > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for > > sharing > > > > what > > > > > > > > you gather. :) > > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical > > concept of > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the > > body as > > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. this > > > > seems to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as reality. > > > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James <[email protected] > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future > > > > > > possibilities > > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I consider a > > > > > > consequence > > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left > > > > unchecked > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as I > > can > > > > tell > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and hold on > > as > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is > > that we > > > > can > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can pursue > > > > > > strategic > > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. > > > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be > > > > accessible > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into electricity > > at > > > > 80+ > > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household materials in > > > > your > > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of > > engineers > > > > that > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it today > > with > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net > > generated > > > > > > income > > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by > > running a > > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely nuts. > > SOFC, > > > > > > steam > > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are a > > few > > > > terms > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > that type of nut. > > > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in our > > > > social > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to be > > able > > > > to > > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, but > > we > > > > > > insist > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
