I third that Vam, nicely said Allan On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > ask and ye shall receive. nicely done! > > > On Saturday, October 13, 2012 8:50:40 AM UTC-4, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same >> effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think >> western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one >> could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway, >> after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning >> coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the >> Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a >> novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly >> stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for a >> mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee >> makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the >> joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea >> for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On >> the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new lawn/ >> snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol >> >> On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Bingo ! * sounding the drums * >> > >> > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that is >> > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... >> > beauty, >> > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc. >> > >> > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others. >> > >> > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it has >> > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has struck a >> > blow at its own foot ! >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> > >> > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions which >> > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones to a >> > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances for the >> > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he stepped >> > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open to >> > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus >> > > demonstrable facts. >> > >> > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > It will still be more clever than the rest ! >> > >> > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> > >> > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-) >> > >> > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed to >> > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for >> > > specific >> > > > > > acts or purposes ... " >> > >> > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, >> > >> > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been programmed >> > >> > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the planet ! >> > >> > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the honey >> > > > > > > bee >> > > as a >> > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. Species >> > > > > > > pick >> > > up >> > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more dedicated- >> > > patterns >> > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth with >> > > > > > > money/ >> > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been >> > > > > > > programmed >> > > to >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans for >> > > specific >> > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, >> > > > > > > insight >> > > and >> > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except the >> > > > > > > final >> > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or >> > > > > > > possible. >> > > Hard >> > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The 12 >> > > > > > > year >> > > old >> > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise for >> > > > > > > violinists. >> > >> > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the move >> > > > > > > > to >> > > > > farming >> > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for >> > > > > > > > those >> > > who >> > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). The >> > > > > > > > obvious >> > > > > issue >> > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our work >> > > > > > > > and >> > > > > life- >> > > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults in >> > > > > > > > their >> > > host >> > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as they >> > > become >> > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in >> > > > > > > > enslaved >> > > ant >> > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' to >> > > > > > > > the >> > > wider >> > > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement and >> > > > > > > > debt >> > > > > > > > peonage. >> > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning salaries on >> > > offer >> > > > > for >> > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The >> > > > > > > > Chinese >> > > > > refer >> > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant >> > > > > > > > People'. >> > > > > Some >> > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing used >> > > > > > > > to >> > > note >> > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most knew >> > > > > > > > as >> > > work >> > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist theme). >> > > > > > > > My >> > > own >> > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff that >> > > James >> > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely imagining >> > > subjects >> > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than >> > > > > > > > control >> > > > > fraud. >> > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary rot. >> > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than most >> > > people >> > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly role >> > > > > > > > once I >> > > > > clear >> > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly because >> > > > > > > > no >> > > human >> > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share problems >> > > > > > > > with >> > > our >> > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time of >> > > > > > > > year >> > > to >> > > > > have >> > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy - >> > > > > > > > soon >> > > my >> > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment to >> > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have now >> > > > > > > > done >> > > this >> > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering. >> > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to >> > > > > > > > predict >> > > the >> > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it in >> > > non-human >> > > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general science-view >> > > > > > > > of >> > > why a >> > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at all. >> > > I'll >> > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the Spartacus >> > > > > > > > ants >> > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire >> > > > > > > > rebellion'? >> > >> > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to appreciate the >> > > role >> > > > > (or a >> > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If there is >> > > > > > > > > a >> > > world >> > > > > with >> > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a >> > > > > > > > > challenge to >> > > > > > > undertake >> > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception or >> > > > > > > > > outside >> > > our >> > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in nature. >> > > > > > > > > These >> > > are >> > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of being >> > > > > > > > > led >> > > > > becomes >> > > > > > > too >> > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on that >> > > > > > > > > as >> > > does >> > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, >> > > corrupting >> > > > > as in >> > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, shared >> > > > > language >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives can >> > > present a >> > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them what >> > > impetus >> > > > > would >> > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when and >> > > where, >> > > > > I've >> > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am >> > > > > > > > > exploring >> > > > > > > currently, >> > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks for >> > > sharing >> > > > > what >> > > > > > > > > you gather. :) >> > >> > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this physical >> > > concept of >> > > > > > > things >> > > > > > > > > > and look at them from a souls to return to soul with the >> > > body as >> > > > > > > nothing >> > > > > > > > > > more than a means of existing in this physical world. >> > > > > > > > > > this >> > > > > seems to >> > > > > > > be >> > > > > > > > > > changing the perspective on what is conceived as >> > > > > > > > > > reality. >> > > > > > > > > > Allan >> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:50 AM, James >> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected] >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > We may be on the same page Gabby, my imagined future >> > > > > > > possibilities >> > > > > > > > > > are still clouded by unknowns (to me). That I >> > > > > > > > > > consider a >> > > > > > > consequence >> > > > > > > > > > of mental bondage to current circumstances, and left >> > > > > unchecked >> > > > > > > can >> > > > > > > > > > be demoralizing to creative intelligence. As far as >> > > > > > > > > > I >> > > can >> > > > > tell >> > > > > > > we >> > > > > > > > > > are meant to invent solutions to challenges, and >> > > > > > > > > > hold on >> > > as >> > > > > long >> > > > > > > as >> > > > > > > > > > possible until the opportunity arises. My opinion is >> > > that we >> > > > > can >> > > > > > > do >> > > > > > > > > > little to force change but as facilitators we can >> > > > > > > > > > pursue >> > > > > > > strategic >> > > > > > > > > > challenges that will open those opportunities. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > If I said that in 10 years the technology should be >> > > > > accessible >> > > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > refine garbage, wood or any other fuel into >> > > > > > > > > > electricity >> > > at >> > > > > 80+ >> > > > > > > > > > conversion efficiency from common household >> > > > > > > > > > materials in >> > > > > your >> > > > > > > > > > average (modern) garage there is no shortage of >> > > engineers >> > > > > that >> > > > > > > would >> > > > > > > > > > call me a quack. If I said that you could do it >> > > > > > > > > > today >> > > with >> > > > > > > moderate >> > > > > > > > > > access to materials refining equipment, with a net >> > > generated >> > > > > > > income >> > > > > > > > > > over the winter months, and it could be boosted by >> > > running a >> > > > > > > > > > greenhouse and indoor fishery I would be surely >> > > > > > > > > > nuts. >> > > SOFC, >> > > > > > > steam >> > > > > > > > > > reforming, plasma reduction, pyrolytic reduction are >> > > > > > > > > > a >> > > few >> > > > > terms >> > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > > > that type of nut. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > I think we are missing the spirit of engineering in >> > > > > > > > > > our >> > > > > social >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > political dialogue. It could just be me.. we seem to >> > > > > > > > > > be >> > > able >> > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > redefine just about any kind of waste into an asset, >> > > > > > > > > > but >> > > we >> > > > > > > insist >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > >
-- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
