To speak of "humans" is to bring into our consideration unimaginable
diversity with various analog measures of essentially three natures in
their capacity and drive :
- Inertia...dullness, sloth, stillness, unwillingness, regressive,
weighted, heavy [ ego- *id* ]
- Active... drive, curiosity, vitality, senses, daring, strength, power
[ ego- *mind* ]
- Calm... balance, freedom, focus, awareness, knowledge
[ ego - *intellect* ]
The way these natures determine us --
I *Overall*, by the proportion of their meaures in our capacity
II *In Time*, by their predominance over others at any point in time.
For instance, a person with 70 : 15 :10 combo would be lazy overall.
But at a time when his vitality is on the flare, he will show unexpectedted
zeal.
Or, when calm nature predominates, he will be surprisingly awake and
receptive.
To answer your question, *ALL* things could be useful and can become a
means for our self-improvement as aid to memory, focus to gather ourself
around, activity to engage in so as to free ourself from our own
ill-thoughts and predispositions, process to build up our concentration and
conserve our vitality, etc.
In particular, most people have a need of *symbols and myths*... a form to
see, remeber or imagine in order to conceive of that which is intangible.
Geometry uses a lot of it for space. The idols in temples or god-persons of
yore are a means of reminding us of ourselves, beyond the piggish, mulish
or cocky form we take on in our lives.
*Rituals and ceremonies* engage us, our vitality and mind, to a particular
emotion or thought in our spirit. Armed forces regularly make use of this
form of engagement.
*Ethics and morals are extremely intangible and tenuous matters* for most
human beings. In addition, they are difficult to carry and institute in
ourselves. It is so much easier to be wilful, to give ourselves away, and
to indulge.
*Religion*, as i was introduced to, was more in the way of propping us up
by morals and ethics, beauty and happiness, compassion and freedom.
Once the the *overall nature is transformed* into being calm, especially
when needed, to holding on to ethics and morals in our person ... religion
is not of much use, nor are symbols and rituals.
Going by what I see however, in news and life in general, that time is not
yet come for most people on this planet.
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:56:47 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
>
> Do humans need rituals and ceremonies in your opinion? I think I
> remember Joseph Campbell saying they were necessary. Are they or have
> we transformed them in the modern era? Were they instituted as a way
> of belonging? Have we lost or gained? Will civil organizations have
> the same power as religious/ethical? Is a civil prison hell, purgatory
> or limbo? Do you know the USA has the highest number of prisons/
> prisoners in the world? (At least a few years ago.)
>
> On Oct 16, 12:45 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Agree entirely, Rigs !
> >
> > The " your-God - my-God " argument ... and "God power" ... ** sigh ***
> >
> > I believe, Jethro Tull says much of what I feel in : *"My God"*
> >
> > People -- what have you done --
> > locked Him in His golden cage.
> > Made Him bend to your religion --
> > Him resurrected from the grave.
> >
> > He is the god of nothing --
> > if that's all that you can see.
> >
> > You are the god of everything --
> > He's inside you and me.
> >
> > So lean upon Him gently
> > and don't call on Him to save you
> > from your social graces
> > and the sins you used to waive.
> > The bloody Church of England --
> > in chains of history --
> > requests your earthly presence at
> > the vicarage for tea.
> >
> > And the graven image you-know-who --
> > with His plastic crucifix --
> > he's got him fixed --
> > confuses me as to who and where and why --
> > as to how he gets his kicks.
> >
> > Confessing to the endless sin --
> > the endless whining sounds.
> > You'll be praying till next Thursday to
> > all the gods that you can count.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:01:47 AM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote:
> >
> > > "God powers" might also be a way of saying possession of grace in a
> > > religious sense. Not sure what race has to do with this as we humans
> > > arrive with the same form- what separates us is equity in several
> > > ways. Political structure is a matter of timing and luck plus picking
> > > the right side/group for the most part if you insist humans are
> > > political by nature. I think there are agreed principals of ethical
> > > behavior- universals- murked up with particulars. There is also a
> > > recognition of evil as a force to contend with- internal and external.
> >
> > > On Oct 15, 6:40 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > I'll pick up the stone
> > > > (
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/reasons-matter-when-i...)
> >
> > > > and argue that I cannot know if your Gods are false or not. Not
> > > > because I am not a religious man, or a black man, or a political
> man,
> > > > but because I am an individual and thereby only possess restrained
> > > > demonstrable God powers myself.
> >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Vam <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > > All Gods that religious men speak about, brandish shall we say,
> are
> > > false.
> >
> > > > > The one distributing those "commandments" included.
> >
> > > > > Which is not what I would say about individuals who take
> initiatives
> > > to
> > > > > restrict people from moral turpitude and unethical conduct.
> >
> > > > > On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:01:46 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic
> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods?
> > > > >> Allan
> >
> > > > >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >> > Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit.
> >
> > > > >> > Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few
> > > words
> > > > >> > in your paragraph. :-)
> >
> > > > >> > On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >> >> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and
> her
> > > > >> >> family
> > > > >> >> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play,
> shout,
> > > > >> >> request,
> > > > >> >> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it
> acrually
> > > turns
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> be a happy interlude .
> >
> > > > >> >> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic
> effects of
> > > > >> >> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their
> > > adherents too
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame
> of
> > > clerics
> > > > >> >> and
> > > > >> >> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered
> with
> > > very
> > > > >> >> beguiling but false promise of freedom.
> >
> > > > >> >> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03
> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have
> the
> > > same
> > > > >> >> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I
> > > think
> > > > >> >> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion
> and
> > > one
> > > > >> >> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors.
> > > Anyway,
> > > > >> >> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my
> > > morning
> > > > >> >> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come
> for
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent
> of
> > > a
> > > > >> >> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were
> > > slightly
> > > > >> >> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the
> kitchen
> > > for
> > > > >> >> > a
> > > > >> >> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those
> small
> > > coffee
> > > > >> >> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to
> rev up
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a
> good
> > > idea
> > > > >> >> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine
> > > confession.) On
> > > > >> >> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for
> a
> > > new
> > > > >> >> > lawn/
> > > > >> >> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol
> >
> > > > >> >> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums *
> >
> > > > >> >> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to
> much
> > > that
> > > > >> >> > > is
> > > > >> >> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and
> non-material
> > > ...
> > > > >> >> > beauty,
> > > > >> >> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc.
> >
> > > > >> >> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have
> several
> > > others.
> >
> > > > >> >> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But
> > > everytime it
> > > > >> >> > > has
> > > > >> >> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity,
> mankind
> > > has
> > > > >> >> > > struck a
> > > > >> >> > > blow at its own foot !
> >
> > > > >> >> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30,
> rigsy03
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and
> > > inventions
> > > > >> >> > > > which
> > > > >> >> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere
> stepping
> > > stones
> > > > >> >> > > > to a
> > > > >> >> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and
> > > advances
> > > > >> >> > > > for the
> > > > >> >> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was
> because
> > > he
> > > > >> >> > > > stepped
> > > > >> >> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are
> more
> > > open
> > > > >> >> > > > to
> > > > >> >> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs
> versus
> > > > >> >> > > > demonstrable facts.
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest !
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30,
> rigsy03
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-)
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been
> > > programmed
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > to
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some
> > > humans
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > for
> > > > >> >> > > > specific
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... "
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man,
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > programmed
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man
> on
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > planet !
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30,
> > > rigsy03
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to
> enter
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > honey
> > > > >> >> > bee
> > > > >> >> > > > as a
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on
> pollination.
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Species
> > > > >> >> > pick
> > > > >> >> > > > up
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > dedicated-
> > > > >> >> > > > patterns
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating
> > > worth
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > with
> > > > >> >> > money/
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they
> have
> > > been
> > > > >> >> > programmed
> > > > >> >> > > > to
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than
> some
> > > humans
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > for
> > > > >> >> > > > specific
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general
> > > intelligence,
> > > > >> >> > insight
> > > > >> >> > > > and
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily
> "lousey"
> > > except
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > >> >> > final
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not
> realized
> > > or
> > > > >> >> > possible.
> > > > >> >> > > > Hard
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a
> myth.
> > > The
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > 12
> > > > >> >> > year
> > > > >> >> > > > old
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some
> > > exercise
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > for
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > violinists.
> >
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such
> things as
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > move
> > > > >> >> > to
> > > > >> >> > > > > > farming
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the
> human
> > > lot for
> > > > >> >> > those
> > > > >> >> > > > who
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the
> > > work).
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > >> >> > obvious
> > > > >> >> > > > > > issue
> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the
> >
> > ...
> >
> > read more ยป- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
--
