Ah, well. I guess I am being told to embrace the paradox. - I think I am getting this thing about talking to yourself better now.
2013/2/2 gabbydott <[email protected]> > Good morning Allan, I am glad you said accounting was a product and that > you didn't say it was neutral tool. It is a man-made product to make > exchanges or transformational actions look like it was a zero sum game we > are all playing with the totAl yet to be achieved. Would this be an > easy-to-understand summary of your view? > > > 2013/2/2 Allan H <[email protected]> > >> I was thinking while playing mahjong (this particular game you lose >> far more often than you win) thinking about accounting.. >> the second you spin accounting you are defining your morality using it >> yoor justify your actions.. accounting is extremely neutral with the >> scales coming out in balance.. whether economic or spiritual >> actually both because they are interlocked with each other. >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Well accounting is still a neutral product .. but people exploit it >> > to get it to say what they want it to say.. if you get a hold of the >> > books plus the hidden books you still can actually find out what is >> > going on by questioning where the money is going.. Hiding money is >> > not good accounting and is out right illegal.. or immoral.. it will >> > show the hoarding or misuse of commodities. Accounting can show the >> > viability of projects.. Great way to catch bad guys.. the >> > enforcement of laws, which are a form of morality. >> > Obama is nothing more than a moderate republican 3 decades back,, >> > the republicans of to day are so extremist they would not have been >> > tolerated. >> > >> > I think a new liberal party (ies) will begin to emerge,, as the >> > extremist are taking their toll >> > >> > It is good to see you supporting Europe. >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:54 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The kind of 'risk taking' we need is on building factories that will >> >> provide good jobs doing stuff, say, like metal extraction from printed >> >> circuit boards, developing petrol from air machines, new building >> >> materials, greening communities - backing on the basis of belief >> >> enough of our efforts will succeed and allow for some failures. >> >> Soviet Paradise failed on such promises, so we need something else - >> >> but we already have a bunch of rentiers bleeding our factories and >> >> even hoarding food and commodities to increase the price in amounts as >> >> serious as Mao's pillaging to build a navy from grain exports in his >> >> mad fantasy of the Great Leap Forward. >> >> >> >> I take delivery of a German car on Tuesday morning. It would be >> >> interesting to know how much war criminal investment is involved in >> >> that, how much North Sea Oil revenue was wasted in the City instead of >> >> developing Rovoer and so on. But even if the UK was again the >> >> workshop of the world, in doing so who would we be selling to in the >> >> rest of the world beggared by our industrial success? - a situation >> >> Germany is in to some extent. >> >> >> >> If accounting told us about money Allan we'd have fewer problems. It >> >> is not a neutral product. I even suspect if it was neutral capitalist- >> >> socialist argument would be irrelevant because we'd have an accurate >> >> account of what is going on. >> >> >> >> On 1 Feb, 15:18, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Neither is capitalism an accounting system... Accounting is >> >>> accounting and simply tells you where your money is going and where >> >>> it is.. it is not an economic system accounting will work wither >> >>> any "ism" >> >>> >> >>> Sorry about the delay answering Neil.. Over simplification of >> >>> spiritual concept is a blessing not a curse.. It is meant and stated >> >>> so that even a child can understand what is said and abide by the >> >>> spiritual idea. As I see it stating simple ideas into complex >> >>> statements is not much more than an excuse to use when trying follow a >> >>> spiritual path.. >> >>> If a child can understand a spiritual path, then hopefully you too >> >>> can understand the path to follow. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 2:57 PM, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > As if socialism is not also an accounting system!!! It is possible >> for >> >>> > capitalism to be compassionate and altruistic versus enforcement >> with >> >>> > hidden motives.//We have not escaped the past either. You may still >> be >> >>> > eating grass porridge as oatmeal. :-) >> >>> >> >>> > On Jan 31, 7:30 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> I like the divine right analogy rigs. I don't favour capitalism >> for >> >>> >> much the same reason. Much discussion of right and wrong is stuck >> in >> >>> >> a past we need to escape. Origin is difficult. Born a Scot I >> might >> >>> >> revere our heritage - but 3000 years ago 'we' were likely German >> >>> >> farmers eating 'grass porridge'. Capitalism broke up much of >> >>> >> feudalism, but I suspect it was no more than a revision of Domesday >> >>> >> Book accounting and labour exploitation. Much of what actually >> goes >> >>> >> on is not capitalism but the establishment of rents through >> financial >> >>> >> manipulations - essentially a control fraud by the rentier-class. >> >>> >> We've been had on a butty - and need more modern argument based on >> >>> >> what we know, facts shared in a common language. >> >>> >> There is a literature suggesting our environmental knowledge is now >> >>> >> important in moral decision-making I think we have missed a lot >> >>> >> before this. Current technology is good enough for us to create >> self- >> >>> >> sustaining communities and give up on empire. We need to >> re-evaluate >> >>> >> our morality against this. I don't see this leading to socialism >> and >> >>> >> any aim seems to me to be about considerably more freedom - from >> such >> >>> >> things as war, work ethics formed in times of shortage and need for >> >>> >> hard labour and so on. The Soviet empire was much like the Tsars >> it >> >>> >> replaced - we used to call the KGB 'Checkists' after the Tsar's >> secret >> >>> >> police. >> >>> >> I suspect capitalism - unless used as a pejorative - is little more >> >>> >> than an accounting system. The problem lies in its corruption. >> >>> >> People cheat and cheats like crimogenic systems that allow work in >> the >> >>> >> dark. The umpire in cricket is now redundant - machines are >> better. >> >>> >> We could have had a machine accounting system on a global basis by >> now >> >>> >> - instead machines play a bigger role in cheating. Capitalism with >> >>> >> fair accounting presents few problems except for losers in the >> >>> >> competition. In sport we have competitions that allow losers first >> >>> >> draft picks and our course there is no competition if one >> eradicates >> >>> >> the competition. Wigan's dominance of the Rugby League was truly >> >>> >> horrible - it was hard t turn up to watch knowing every other team >> >>> >> would lose. >> >>> >> The pathway to Hell is lined with good intentions Gabby - we are >> >>> >> scared of change. Does anyone now believe that rule by the >> Guardians >> >>> >> of future socialist paradise can be established to wither away? >> Or >> >>> >> that the rentiers will wither away as Keynes hoped? And are such >> >>> >> matters not the same coin, merely opposite sides? Capitalism has >> run >> >>> >> up a lot of debt - are we so sure of it we can do away with time- >> >>> >> honoured debt jubilee? Would it not make more sense to give away >> what >> >>> >> we have built already to the people, have something of a leveling >> and >> >>> >> start again with a new focus on sustainability? >> >>> >> The genuine capitalist firm treats finance as a cost - it is >> difficult >> >>> >> to see from this how the vast transactions of financial services >> are >> >>> >> not parasitic on such firms and all of us. The bubbles created >> cause >> >>> >> much misery and form part of a vast Ponzi scheme we have no need >> of. >> >>> >> Beyond this, capitalism is really assumed to be a dirty game of >> beggar >> >>> >> thy neighbour we are ahead in and need to stay ahead in or we'll >> lose >> >>> >> military edge (and so on). We end up justifying doing bad things >> for >> >>> >> the greater end and rationalising this as moral. >> >>> >> >>> >> On Jan 31, 9:14 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > The way you contrast socialism and capitalism is like contrasting >> >>> >> > creationism versus evolutionism. And by the natural law that the >> fittest >> >>> >> > will survive you are right to have decided for the evolutionary >> view. >> >>> >> >>> >> > I don't think - and the exchange in this group has helped me a >> lot to see >> >>> >> > this clearer - we should forget how tempting the search for the >> right >> >>> >> > answers is. >> >>> >> >>> >> > 2013/1/31 rigs <[email protected]> >> >>> >> >>> >> > > I am a fan of capitalism. I consider Marxism and Fascism as an >> >>> >> > > extension of socialism which is an extension of divine >> rights,etc., >> >>> >> > > i.e. theft, redistribution of another's wealth and labor, >> weakening of >> >>> >> > > the body politic (a form of serfdom) which turns governments >> into >> >>> >> > > bloodsuckers via taxes and debt.//Do you think economics is a >> valid >> >>> >> > > science? Why, when it has flopped so many times.//We need >> production >> >>> >> > > and labor plus consumption so there is a need for immigrants >> into >> >>> >> > > white industrial countries to make up for the decline of white >> births >> >>> >> > > (55 million abortions plus birth control). But I wonder if >> illegals >> >>> >> > > will pay back taxes and bother to learn English. It might go >> smoother >> >>> >> > > if we learn Spanish and Europe learn Arabic.//Family can also >> hurt >> >>> >> > > people but sometimes that hurt teaches valuable lessons. It is >> easier >> >>> >> > > to leave some people and events to Heaven though it would >> probably >> >>> >> > > spell the end of the legal profession. >> >>> >> >>> >> > > On Jan 30, 4:56 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> > > > I'm not sure the audience is as wide as your estimate rigs. >> >>> >> > > > Technically I am hospitable to any theoretical view from >> marxism to >> >>> >> > > > fascism - though I tend to dislike theoretical views - and >> hospitable >> >>> >> > > > to Islamic theory/s in business analysis - and to guests in >> my >> >>> >> > > > classrooms from all backgrounds. This is easy enough - as >> easy as >> >>> >> > > > offering to put you up if you were travelling in the UK. The >> >>> >> > > > difficult bit is in reciprocity - here we might think of the >> Maussian >> >>> >> > > > concept of the gift and many examples in 'stoneage >> economics' - what >> >>> >> > > > is expect of a guest in return. One gives freely - a few >> nights stay >> >>> >> > > > is not given for a return of a few nights stay and so on - >> yet one >> >>> >> > > > does not generally keep giving to inhospitable guests. One >> can >> >>> >> > > > discuss racism yet not tolerate racists - but to brand people >> >>> >> > > > concerned their opportunities for homes and work are >> disappearing in >> >>> >> > > > immigration flows as racist who raise these issues with some >> hatred on >> >>> >> > > > the people taking them is also wrong (particularly if done by >> >>> >> > > > politically correct idiots whose homes and jobs are not >> under such >> >>> >> > > > threat). Hospitality is sometimes easy, sometimes very hard >> work, can >> >>> >> > > > be a treat or pain - but is always already reciprocal in >> intent even >> >>> >> > > > if no commodity exchange is meant. I prefer to be >> hospitable to you >> >>> >> > > > rigs than tolerant - tolerance has pratronising aspects - >> and this is >> >>> >> > > > my general approach to things intellectual. It's easy with >> you as I >> >>> >> > > > like what I hear. I have lost hospitality to politics. >> Left to typo >> >>> >> > > > as it hits the meaning better than the word I intended! >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > People hurt us Andrew. We hurt them. Some is intentional >> some not. >> >>> >> > > > Gossip is often vicious from the pub to academic cloister. >> >>> >> > > > Transactional analysis isn't a bad place to look at how rigs' >> >>> >> > > > "balanced score card" builds up in personal relationships - >> Eric >> >>> >> > > > Berne's 'Games People Play' is still. the best book. Only >> friends can >> >>> >> > > > generally hurt us as we come to expect better from them, >> value them >> >>> >> > > > and so on. Friendship is easily mimicked and sometimes that >> small >> >>> >> > > > thing you mention may reveal the charade. Sometimes we take >> things >> >>> >> > > > too hard and should just let an incident wash away. This >> can be >> >>> >> > > > particularly hard if you've been collecting brown stamps >> (been shit >> >>> >> > > > on) in too many recent encounters. I used to go to the pub >> every >> >>> >> > > > Friday to get rid of my collection - but this habit itself >> became a >> >>> >> > > > brown stamp. I'm not religious but there's lots in >> forgiveness and >> >>> >> > > > 'there but for the grace of god go I'. >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > On 29 Jan, 19:11, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > Please define what you mean by "hospitality"- of the >> individual, the >> >>> >> > > > > group, nations. Thanks. :-) >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > On Jan 29, 5:22 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > I think the first consideration is hospitality rigs. >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > On Jan 29, 12:10 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > > At least some had good intentions re empires- maybe >> that should be >> >>> >> > > > > > > noted. And I believe in good intentions, myself- don't >> you? It's >> >>> >> > > > > > > likely a project for those two columCouldns of >> thinking and >> >>> >> > > sorting. >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > > On Jan 28, 6:41 am, archytas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > > > Good question Andrew - though we could wonder why >> most people >> >>> >> > > have >> >>> >> > > > > > > > rosy views of the US and British empires, pretty >> much against >> >>> >> > > the real >> >>> >> > > > > > > > history. >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 11:19 am, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> ... >> >>> >> >>> read more ยป >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> --- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ( >> > ) >> > |_D Allan >> > >> > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> > >> > Of course I talk to myself, >> > Sometimes I need expert advice.. >> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> |_D Allan >> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> >> Of course I talk to myself, >> Sometimes I need expert advice.. >> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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