Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage to them and might be exterminated.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. > > > On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might loot >> it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human pool will >> remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always remain >> subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very freedom for >> which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is know your >> nature and potential before you make machines that surpass our intelligence >> because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to us, rather live >> in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless machines. >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the greatest >>> SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist society of >>> Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is carried out >>> by computers. This serves to take a major component of the exercise of >>> power out of the area of human relations. >>> >>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems to be >>> one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just human - >>> take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for example. >>> I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are freaks as we >>> don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get it, but I must >>> acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an immensely strong >>> driving force for a lot of people. >>> >>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to the >>> idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately suspicious. But >>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy >>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have huge >>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my >>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets which is >>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which then >>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than humans do >>> at the moment? >>> >>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at work >>> here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who Goethe has >>> despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, die >>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I can't >>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the >>> Singularity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> comes, >>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us for >>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >>> >>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - >>> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us - but >>> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right now? >>> And who controls? >>> >>> >>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>>> >>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form empires of >>>> violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the Italian invasion of >>>> part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population the planet could >>>> manage, new technologies that could have released us from work serfdom and >>>> the potential to grow green and surpass our libidinal-violent biology. >>>> Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a bacterial colony >>>> poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, largely >>>> about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no idea how these >>>> wars started, interesting given how much education I've had. The Americans >>>> won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted no part of the >>>> stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can be said on this, >>>> yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human society is generally >>>> dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the zenith of the >>>> Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black Sea >>>> industry from then until 1870. >>>> >>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational >>>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class that >>>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would embody >>>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine >>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our libidinal-violent >>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and rather >>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. We >>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in safe >>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a third of >>>> his known world's population. >>>> >>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality shames >>>> us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with extra-somatic >>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the interests of >>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in place as a >>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power we >>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about this. >>>> Anyone here even think about it? >>>> >>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are not >>>> actually interested in large-scale human change. >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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