The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival instinct is that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, after-life, etc. We just want to live for ever.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future would > either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or to the > machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical > supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with machines > and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is neither > machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I don't > think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this world > and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is it > not, Neil? > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once robots >> can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines became >> Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to countless >> species. We might, of course RP, become the machines. >> >> The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing? >> >> >> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>> >>> Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage to >>> them and might be exterminated. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>> >>>>> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might >>>>> loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human pool >>>>> will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always >>>>> remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very >>>>> freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is >>>>> know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass our >>>>> intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to us, >>>>> rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless >>>>> machines. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the >>>>>> greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist >>>>>> society >>>>>> of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is carried >>>>>> out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the exercise >>>>>> of >>>>>> power out of the area of human relations. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems to >>>>>> be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just human >>>>>> - >>>>>> take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for >>>>>> example. >>>>>> I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are freaks as >>>>>> we >>>>>> don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get it, but I must >>>>>> acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an immensely strong >>>>>> driving force for a lot of people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to the >>>>>> idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately suspicious. But >>>>>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy >>>>>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have >>>>>> huge >>>>>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my >>>>>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets which >>>>>> is >>>>>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which >>>>>> then >>>>>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >>>>>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than humans >>>>>> do >>>>>> at the moment? >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at work >>>>>> here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who Goethe has >>>>>> despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, die >>>>>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I can't >>>>>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the >>>>>> Singularity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> >>>>>> comes, >>>>>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us for >>>>>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - >>>>>> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us - >>>>>> but >>>>>> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right now? >>>>>> And who controls? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form empires >>>>>>> of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the Italian invasion >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population the planet >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> manage, new technologies that could have released us from work serfdom >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the potential to grow green and surpass our libidinal-violent biology. >>>>>>> Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a bacterial colony >>>>>>> poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, largely >>>>>>> about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no idea how >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> wars started, interesting given how much education I've had. The >>>>>>> Americans >>>>>>> won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted no part of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can be said on >>>>>>> this, >>>>>>> yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human society is generally >>>>>>> dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the zenith of the >>>>>>> Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black Sea >>>>>>> industry from then until 1870. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational >>>>>>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class that >>>>>>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would embody >>>>>>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine >>>>>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our >>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and rather >>>>>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. We >>>>>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in safe >>>>>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a >>>>>>> third of >>>>>>> his known world's population. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality >>>>>>> shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with >>>>>>> extra-somatic >>>>>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the >>>>>>> interests of >>>>>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in place >>>>>>> as a >>>>>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power we >>>>>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about this. >>>>>>> Anyone here even think about it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are >>>>>>> not actually interested in large-scale human change. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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