Maybe some kind of legal document/process/intervention made by a lawyer to Novell/Attachmate. But I didn't succeed to contact my lawyer at this moment to as that question
Karl From: Demis Bellot <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:50:28 +0100 To: Justin Hansen <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MonoTouch] SPAM-LOW: Re: So..... what happens now? Well I don't expect waiting for answers on this mailing list is going to provide a very eventful outcome. I haven't seen an official Attachmate employee post to this group ever since I heard of the rumour that they laid off the entire MT team. We need to open a dialogue with Attachmate on this issue and get a formal statement of how existing customers are meant to proceed on MonoTouch/MonoDroid technologies. Anyone got any ideas on how to do this? - Demis On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Justin Hansen <[email protected]> wrote: > I didn't say that Attachment doesn't suck and the product has a dead future. > > NokNok is talking about law suits and fraud. Attachment doesn't have to fix > any bugs, they don't have to answer out emails and they don't have to care. > Nothing in any agreement with Novell said anything about any of that. We > purchased a product that works. I have apps in the app store made with it so > no one can say it isn't as advertised. Any technically for the time being it > still is. I wouldn't buy it. I would tell anyone else in the world not to. But > for those of us that did it just sucks. There is nothing that can be done YET. > They haven't done anything illegal YET. Wrong, definitely. Immoral, sure. But > nothing illegal or actionable has been done as far as myself or my lawyer see > it. > > Justin Hansen > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Demis Bellot <[email protected]> wrote: >>> They have not killed the product yet. >> >> Which is a very real problem if they're still selling it given that.. >> >>> They just got rid of the team. >> >> Just? the reason why you would choose to develop software on a platform is >> that it remains a well-supported option >> >>> They haven't said they won't get a new team. >> >> How can they possibly get a new team? all their expertise on the product has >> now vanished. This is not a drop-in tech for .NET devs on the street to fill. >> No Mono team means MonoTouch/MonoDroid will never be properly supported >> >>> Also, their product still works. >> >> Where do we file bugs? and who will resolve them? >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Justin Hansen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I still disagree. That analogy makes no sense. Your car will definitely need >>> oil changes. Updating the product that they create is up to their >>> discretion. Also, the easy fix in your scenario would be to pay for your oil >>> change elsewhere. This also can't be done with the product we are talking >>> about without further agreement which may be in the works for all we know. >>> >>> It doesn't guarantee the release of updates, it guarantees that we will have >>> access to any that come out. >>> >>> Justin Hansen >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:28 PM, NokNok Developer <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I dont know about that. If Im a consumer, looking to build .NET apps on >>>> MonoDroid, and I purchased MonoDroid last week, my expectation from the >>>> site is that I am paying for a product which includes 1 year of updates. >>>> >>>> If in fact, their is no-one to make such updates, nor is their "an intent" >>>> to provide updates over the year, then that my friend is fraud. >>>> >>>> So if they do not establish they HAVE intent, then in fact it would be >>>> like me selling you my car, with a year free oil changes, but I have no >>>> place to do the oil changes, i have no employees to do the oil changes, i >>>> have no intention of ever giving you an oil change. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/17/2011 3:09 PM, Justin Hansen wrote: >>>>> They have not killed the product yet. They just got rid of the team. They >>>>> haven't said they won't get a new team. Also, their product still works. >>>>> >>>>> They def haven't committed any fraud yet. >>>>> >>>>> I'm just as angry as the rest of you, I am just pointing out that all the >>>>> conclusions that are being jumped to (that Attachment owes us something or >>>>> fraud) just aren't true yet. They say we are entitled to any updates that >>>>> come out for a year. The only way there is any fraud related to that is if >>>>> an update does come out that is denied to us. They aren't guaranteeing >>>>> that they will ever come out with an update. The discount code works, no >>>>> fraud there. The product has not been officially killed for all we know >>>>> they are hiring new people to take the product in a new direction. I doubt >>>>> that's the case and wouldn't support them if they did, but since we can't >>>>> prove any of this none of the below statement is true at this point. >>>>> >>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:03 PM, NokNok Developer <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I dont know here, it would be to my thinking any company selling a >>>>>> product claiming one year updates, and still providing the DISCOUNT CODE >>>>>> for existing TOUCH USERS - AFTER LETTING GO OF ENTIRE TEAM, AND KNOWINGLY >>>>>> KILLED THE PRODUCT - would be constituted as consumer fraud... >>>>>> >>>>>> Which all did occur... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/17/2011 2:59 PM, Justin Hansen wrote: >>>>>>> I agree, I'm saying that Attachment has no obligation to us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Natalia Portillo <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> El 17/05/2011, a las 16:55, Justin Hansen escribió: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >From my standpoint if monotouch doesn't come with guaranteed support >>>>>>>> why should they be obligated to do so? Esspecially since we agreed that >>>>>>>> they don't in the contract. I know that you can't have a contract that >>>>>>>> negates a law but there is no law that says a company must provide user >>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That being said I'm from the U.S. so I can't speak to anything outside >>>>>>> this country. I just know my lawyer pointed out that clause in 10 >>>>>>> minutes and asked me about promised support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You still have the "one year of updates" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I spoke with a lawyer in brazil (where consumer rights are one of the >>>>>>> strongest) and he said that the above term is absurd... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He said that a process can take really a long to court decide, but can >>>>>>> be a good pression. As I live in brasil, if I make something with >>>>>>> Novell, I will do here. So each one must do, I think, on tis living >>>>>>> country. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Karl >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Justin Hansen <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:47:56 -0400 >>>>>>> To: Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MonoTouch] SPAM-LOW: Re: So..... what happens now? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Out of curiosity does monotouch come with one year of support or just >>>>>>> one year of upgrades? See below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Novell has no obligation to provide support or maintenance unless You >>>>>>> purchase an offering that expressly includes support or maintenance >>>>>>> services. If You make such a purchase and no separate agreement >>>>>>> specifically applies to the support or maintenance services, then the >>>>>>> terms of this Agreement will govern the provision of such support or >>>>>>> maintenance services (³Services³). For more information on Novell's >>>>>>> current support offerings, see http://www.novell.com/support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't see where on the site it says anything about guaranteed >>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Karl >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com <http://www.klickwerx.com/> >>>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com <http://www.klickwerx.com/> >>>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected]http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monot >>>>>>> ouch >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin Hansen >>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MonoTouch mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> - Demis >> >> http://twitter.com/demisbellot >> http://www.servicestack.net/mythz_blog >> > > > > -- > Justin Hansen > http://www.klickwerx.com > Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb > _______________________________________________ MonoTouch mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch
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