I imagine that all we can do is be a nuisance until they respond. I have sent an email every other day so at least I feel like I'm doing something.
I also want to be clear that even though it may seem like I'm saying like I'm defending Attachmate and what they are doing I'm not. I'm just separating what is bad business from illegal business and also having a spirited debate on the subject. Justin Hansen On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Demis Bellot <[email protected]>wrote: > Well I don't expect waiting for answers on this mailing list is going to > provide a very eventful outcome. > I haven't seen an official Attachmate employee post to this group ever > since I heard of the rumour that they laid off the entire MT team. > > We need to open a dialogue with Attachmate on this issue and get a formal > statement of how existing customers are meant to proceed on > MonoTouch/MonoDroid technologies. > Anyone got any ideas on how to do this? > > - Demis > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Justin Hansen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I didn't say that Attachment doesn't suck and the product has a dead >> future. >> >> NokNok is talking about law suits and fraud. Attachment doesn't have to >> fix any bugs, they don't have to answer out emails and they don't have to >> care. Nothing in any agreement with Novell said anything about any of that. >> We purchased a product that works. I have apps in the app store made with it >> so no one can say it isn't as advertised. Any technically for the time being >> it still is. I wouldn't buy it. I would tell anyone else in the world not >> to. But for those of us that did it just sucks. There is nothing that can be >> done YET. They haven't done anything illegal YET. Wrong, definitely. >> Immoral, sure. But nothing illegal or actionable has been done as far as >> myself or my lawyer see it. >> >> Justin Hansen >> >> >> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Demis Bellot <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> They have not killed the product yet. >>> >>> >>> Which is a very real problem if they're still selling it given that.. >>> >>> >>>> They just got rid of the team. >>> >>> >>> Just? the reason why you would choose to develop software on a platform >>> is that it remains a well-supported option >>> >>> They haven't said they won't get a new team. >>> >>> >>> How can they possibly get a new team? all their expertise on the product >>> has now vanished. This is not a drop-in tech for .NET devs on the street to >>> fill. No Mono team means MonoTouch/MonoDroid will never be properly >>> supported >>> >>> Also, their product still works. >>> >>> >>> Where do we file bugs? and who will resolve them? >>> >>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Justin Hansen <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> I still disagree. That analogy makes no sense. Your car will definitely >>>> need oil changes. Updating the product that they create is up to their >>>> discretion. Also, the easy fix in your scenario would be to pay for your >>>> oil >>>> change elsewhere. This also can't be done with the product we are talking >>>> about without further agreement which may be in the works for all we know. >>>> >>>> It doesn't guarantee the release of updates, it guarantees that we will >>>> have access to any that come out. >>>> >>>> Justin Hansen >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:28 PM, NokNok Developer <[email protected] >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> I dont know about that. If Im a consumer, looking to build .NET apps >>>>> on MonoDroid, and I purchased MonoDroid last week, my expectation from the >>>>> site is that I am paying for a product which includes 1 year of updates. >>>>> >>>>> If in fact, their is no-one to make such updates, nor is their "an >>>>> intent" to provide updates over the year, then that my friend is fraud. >>>>> >>>>> So if they do not establish they HAVE intent, then in fact it would be >>>>> like me selling you my car, with a year free oil changes, but I have no >>>>> place to do the oil changes, i have no employees to do the oil changes, i >>>>> have no intention of ever giving you an oil change. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/17/2011 3:09 PM, Justin Hansen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> They have not killed the product yet. They just got rid of the team. >>>>> They haven't said they won't get a new team. Also, their product still >>>>> works. >>>>> >>>>> They def haven't committed any fraud yet. >>>>> >>>>> I'm just as angry as the rest of you, I am just pointing out that all >>>>> the conclusions that are being jumped to (that Attachment owes us >>>>> something >>>>> or fraud) just aren't true yet. They say we are entitled to any updates >>>>> that >>>>> come out for a year. The only way there is any fraud related to that is if >>>>> an update does come out that is denied to us. They aren't guaranteeing >>>>> that >>>>> they will ever come out with an update. The discount code works, no fraud >>>>> there. The product has not been officially killed for all we know they are >>>>> hiring new people to take the product in a new direction. I doubt that's >>>>> the >>>>> case and wouldn't support them if they did, but since we can't prove any >>>>> of >>>>> this none of the below statement is true at this point. >>>>> >>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:03 PM, NokNok Developer < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I dont know here, it would be to my thinking any company selling a >>>>>> product claiming one year updates, and still providing the DISCOUNT CODE >>>>>> for >>>>>> existing TOUCH USERS - AFTER LETTING GO OF ENTIRE TEAM, AND KNOWINGLY >>>>>> KILLED >>>>>> THE PRODUCT - would be constituted as consumer fraud... >>>>>> >>>>>> Which all did occur... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/17/2011 2:59 PM, Justin Hansen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree, I'm saying that Attachment has no obligation to us. >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Natalia Portillo < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> El 17/05/2011, a las 16:55, Justin Hansen escribió: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >From my standpoint if monotouch doesn't come with guaranteed support >>>>>>> why should they be obligated to do so? Esspecially since we agreed that >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> don't in the contract. I know that you can't have a contract that >>>>>>> negates a >>>>>>> law but there is no law that says a company must provide user support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That being said I'm from the U.S. so I can't speak to anything >>>>>>> outside this country. I just know my lawyer pointed out that clause in >>>>>>> 10 >>>>>>> minutes and asked me about promised support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You still have the "one year of updates" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I spoke with a lawyer in brazil (where consumer rights are one of >>>>>>>> the strongest) and he said that the above term is absurd... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He said that a process can take really a long to court decide, but >>>>>>>> can be a good pression. As I live in brasil, if I make something with >>>>>>>> Novell, I will do here. So each one must do, I think, on tis living >>>>>>>> country. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Karl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Justin Hansen <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:47:56 -0400 >>>>>>>> To: Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MonoTouch] SPAM-LOW: Re: So..... what happens now? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Out of curiosity does monotouch come with one year of support or >>>>>>>> just one year of upgrades? See below: >>>>>>>> MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Novell has no obligation to provide support or maintenance unless >>>>>>>> You purchase an offering that expressly includes support or maintenance >>>>>>>> services. If You make such a purchase and no separate agreement >>>>>>>> specifically applies to the support or maintenance services, then the >>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>> of this Agreement will govern the provision of such support or >>>>>>>> maintenance >>>>>>>> services (“Services“). For more information on Novell's current >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> offerings, see http://www.novell.com/support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can't see where on the site it says anything about guaranteed >>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Karl Heinz Brehme Arredondo < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe that… >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Karl >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MonoTouch mailing >>>>>> [email protected]http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Justin Hansen >>>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Justin Hansen >>>> http://www.klickwerx.com >>>> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> MonoTouch mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/monotouch >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> - Demis >>> >>> http://twitter.com/demisbellot >>> http://www.servicestack.net/mythz_blog >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Justin Hansen >> http://www.klickwerx.com >> Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb >> >> > > -- Justin Hansen http://www.klickwerx.com Need some technology help? - http://www.betterfly.com/LearnTheWeb
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