And seeing that posters described as 'proofs' were more valuable than
simply one sheets, that is hardly surprising.

Tommy

On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, 15:59 Bruce Hershenson, <[email protected]>
wrote:

> If THAT'S not proof, I don't know what is!
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 8:39 AM David Lieberman <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> one last thing:
>>
>> Every single one of the former print shop employees we have received
>> these posters from has referred to them as "proofs".
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 6:38 AM David Lieberman <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> However one wishes to describe them:
>>>
>>> A. Uncut Overrun Poster
>>> B. Printer's Test
>>> C. Printer's Proof
>>>
>>> Regardless of what they really truly are, and I doubt that anyone will
>>> ever have a definitive answer, they are rarer, much more valuable, and much
>>> more desirable than a regular one sheet. Poster collectors have spoken time
>>> and time again by paying high prices at auction and at retail.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 6:13 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> I have do not doubt that they are original and that employees took them
>>>> home. My question remains, though: Are these actually test prints or just
>>>> uncut onesheets? After all, that color control bar was on every single
>>>> sheet they printed and the posters were cut to size afterwards.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike digital printing, where you can print  (and usually pay for)
>>>> exact numbers, with analog offset the majority of the cost is in the
>>>> prepress process. While it is perfectly possible to print five or ten test
>>>> posters, once the actual production has started, it did not make much of a
>>>> difference if they printed 10,000 or 11,000 copies. In fact, it is
>>>> basically impossible to print a perfectly 'exact' number on those big
>>>> machines. So there usually was an overrun, and it is perfectly plausible
>>>> that employees would've been allowed to take some of them home. In case of
>>>> STAR WARS it may have even been an intentional overrun, who knows.
>>>>
>>>> My point being: In my book, an uncut overrun poster is just that. For
>>>> me, it does not qualify as a 'test print' or 'printer's proof'. It's simply
>>>> a onesheet that has not been cut down to size.
>>>>
>>>> Helmut
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 26. November 2023 um 13:49 Uhr
>>>> *Von:* "David Lieberman" <[email protected]>
>>>> *An:* [email protected]
>>>> *Betreff:* Re: [MOPO] STAR WARS PROOFS 💥 CineMasterpieces VINTAGE
>>>> MOVIE POSTERS
>>>> one last note......the proofs that were made into book covers were from
>>>> REVENGE OF THE JEDI.
>>>>
>>>> now everybody scream!
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 5:27 AM David Lieberman <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I forgot ANIMAL HOUSE, the advance and regular one sheets. Another
>>>>> title with a lot of proofs.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 5:16 AM David Lieberman <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "why do we see so many of the STAR WARS tests in comparison to any
>>>>>> other title?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great question Helmut. I wondered about this for a long time. After
>>>>>> acquiring several of these proofs from at least four or five different
>>>>>> former print shop employees over the past 20 years, I finally had a 
>>>>>> lengthy
>>>>>> discussion with one of them and his answer was this. First of all, it 
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>> just Star Wars, there are a few other titles from that era 1977-1980 
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> a lot of proofs exist. There are a lot of JAWS 2, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE
>>>>>> THIRD KIND, and a few other nothing titles that no one really cares 
>>>>>> about.
>>>>>> A lot of these haven't survived or haven't been noticed on ebay or other
>>>>>> auction sites over the past 40+ years because no one really wants them 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they don't sell for much. Secondly......these former employees were
>>>>>> basically just kids at the time mostly in their early twenties. They took
>>>>>> stuff home all the time that was meant for the dumpster because they were
>>>>>> allowed to. They took stuff that they thought was "cool". Star Wars was
>>>>>> cool and became collectible almost immediately. One of our clients who 
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> to work at GORE GRAPHICS told me about his kids in the 1980's who took 
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> of his proofs and made book covers for their school books to show off to
>>>>>> their classmates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 4:47 AM Helmut Hamm <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whatever you want to call them, test printings or proofs: When it
>>>>>>> comes to STAR WARS, there way too many of these around for my taste. 
>>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>>> alone has auctioned more than thirty copies of the Style C Onesheet 
>>>>>>> 'test
>>>>>>> print'. Frankly, I can't see any difference to the regular onesheets.
>>>>>>> Actually, they just look like untrimmed onesheets to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to all of these being 'test prints' that were 'sent out to the
>>>>>>> client for confirmation': For all I know, this is NOT common practice 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> print shops anywhere in the world, and it never was. If that was the 
>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>> why do we see so many of the STAR WARS tests in comparison to any other
>>>>>>> title? This does not make any sense to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's an actual test print for the BLADE RUNNER onesheet:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.filmposter.net/en/blade-runner-original-release-us-test-proof-movie-poster.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As all print shops do, the printer saved a small number of these
>>>>>>> posters (for all I know, it was more than five, but less than ten) for
>>>>>>> their archive. These prints came to the market after the company folded 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> somebody cleared out their inventory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you can see, the image is very different from the final onesheet.
>>>>>>> Apparently, somebody took a serious effort to get things right, but in 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> pre-digital days, creating a test like this was seriously expensive and
>>>>>>> therefore a rare exception, not common practice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Helmut
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 25. November 2023 um 14:05 Uhr
>>>>>>> *Von:* "Bruce Hershenson" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> *An:* [email protected]
>>>>>>> *Betreff:* Re: [MOPO] BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2023 💥 CineMasterpieces
>>>>>>> VINTAGE MOVIE POSTERS ��
>>>>>>> I agree he has a MASSIVE amount of super helpful information and
>>>>>>> bravo to Dave. especially where he helps newbies not get ripped off by 
>>>>>>> eBay
>>>>>>> sellers openly selling fakes..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But does he still call "printer's test" posters "proofs"? I hope
>>>>>>> not, because 99% of the ones circulating in the hobby are test posters 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> were printed to get people's reactions before the final print run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The few true PROOF posters are sent back to the printer with
>>>>>>> markings as to what needs to be changed OR have an approval stamped area
>>>>>>> where it is OK'ed for printing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 6:40 AM David Kusumoto <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't know how many others are on Dave Lieberman's newsletter but I
>>>>>>>> hadn't visited his site in a long time and I went straight to his Star 
>>>>>>>> Wars
>>>>>>>> section - and I was floored by the wealth of information about almost 
>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>> known poster iteration of Star Wars - from concept to its celebrated
>>>>>>>> inaugural year of 1977 - (theatrical and commercial) - in roughly
>>>>>>>> chronological order.  The section includes detailed images and 
>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>> of known fakes, including personal testimonials of oddball things he
>>>>>>>> concedes he was initially fooled about like a lot of us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He also provides a detailed study of printer's proofs - which -
>>>>>>>> while I've never had the desire to collect nor own, is still 
>>>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>>>> insofar there are collectors who DO love and pay $$$ for them.  He 
>>>>>>>> explains
>>>>>>>> how they came to be, their ubiquitous presence and the differences 
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> PMS (pantone) vs. CMYK proofs, which came first, etc. - and why it 
>>>>>>>> matters
>>>>>>>> to some collectors and not to others.  Great stuff for SW completists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Encourage anyone interested to venture over there and take a
>>>>>>>> gander, not just at the massive Star Wars section - but also other
>>>>>>>> sections, including the one where he re-lives the entire minty white 
>>>>>>>> insert
>>>>>>>> and lobby card counterfeit saga - from his own point of view as a 
>>>>>>>> gallery
>>>>>>>> owner of many years in AZ.  He further provides in one section - a long
>>>>>>>> list of titles and accompanying formats he implicates as having been 
>>>>>>>> faked
>>>>>>>> - in line with other dealers who've said the same.  He also sources the
>>>>>>>> geographic locations of some suspect dealers who - to this day - are 
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> peddling these things as originals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Between this, eMoviePoster, Learn About Movie Posters, Walter
>>>>>>>> Reuben and others - this is a storehouse of information grouped by 
>>>>>>>> category
>>>>>>>> / genre that's available right now - for free.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best, David near San Diego, still the biggest fan of the
>>>>>>>> never-faked (to date) - and grossly underrated Star Wars half-sheet 
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> 1977 with alternate Jung art.  Cinemasterpieces image below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. - The Chantrell art on the Style C is probably my true fav
>>>>>>>> among the SW one-sheets - were it not for the fakes and not even 
>>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>>> until recently about the "hair on Leia's back" as a marker on that 
>>>>>>>> style -
>>>>>>>> sort of a "bookend" to the style A repro.  But I still think the 
>>>>>>>> alternate
>>>>>>>> Jung landscape art on the half-sheet is excellent and affordable - and
>>>>>>>> after nearly 50 years - it still puzzles me how unloved it is by so 
>>>>>>>> many.
>>>>>>>> (Not the centerpiece of anyone's SW collection that I know of.)  I 
>>>>>>>> know it
>>>>>>>> will never reach the heights of a Casablanca of Oz half-sheet in my
>>>>>>>> remaining lifetime - (which are admittedly more rare) - but maybe 
>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>> generations of Disney fans will.  -d.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* David Lieberman <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 24, 2023 3:03 PM
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* BLACK FRIDAY SALE 2023 STARTS NOW 💥 CineMasterpieces
>>>>>>>> VINTAGE MOVIE POSTERS 💥
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *CINEMASTERPIECES HOLIDAY SALE <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *20% OFF*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *ALL VINTAGE ORIGINAL MOVIE POSTERS*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> NOT ON EBAY)*
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> able to locate one for you. Please contact us
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]?subject=CineMasterpieces,%20please%20help%20me%20find%20this%20poster.>
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>>>>>>>> read Customer Testimonials and see our Celebrity Clients.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> To see pricing, details, and to start shopping please browse
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>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *President*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David A. Lieberman is the owner and founder of CineMasterpieces. He
>>>>>>>> has been buying and selling vintage posters for over 30 years. David 
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>>>>>>>> recurring expert featured on the History Channel TV show *Pawn
>>>>>>>> Stars*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Recurring Expert Featured on*
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Monroe <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cine_marilyn.htm> *|*
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>>>>>>>> *|* Payment Plan / Layaway
>>>>>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cineshipping.htm#paymentplan>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 602.309.0500
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> © 2003 - 2025, CineMasterpieces.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All rights reserved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> est. 2001
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 602 309 0500
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>  |
>>>>>>>> JAMES BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  
>>>>>>>> V.I.P.
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2I8OsG6pbc3eRUr6h7Qhg>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the MoPo-L list, click the following link:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.american.edu/scripts/wa-american.exe?SUBED1=MoPo-L&A=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Bruce Hershenson and the other 22 members of the eMoviePoster.com
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> P.O. Box 874
>>>>>>> West Plains, MO 65775
>>>>>>> Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when
>>>>>>> we take lunch)
>>>>>>> our site <http://www.emovieposter.com/>
>>>>>>> our auctions <http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Complete Buyer Protection
>>>>>>> <http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/20120625ad_emovieposter_no_buyer_beware_buyer_warranty.jpg>
>>>>>>> - *No time limit on our guarantees & *NO* buyer beware
>>>>>>> *Hershenson Help Hotline
>>>>>>> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/20120906_mcw_ad_hershenson_help_hotline_forsite.jpg>
>>>>>>> - *Direct line to Bruce (our owner!) for urgent problems
>>>>>>> Also, please read the following three pages of in-depth* Customer
>>>>>>> Reviews *of our company * - Page 1
>>>>>>> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page1.jpg>,
>>>>>>> Page 2
>>>>>>> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page2.jpg>,
>>>>>>> Page 3
>>>>>>> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page3.jpg>*,
>>>>>>> which shows you in our customers' own words exactly what makes our 
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>>>>>>> and our auctions so very different from all others!
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> President
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 602 309 0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>
>>>>>> |  JAMES BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2I8OsG6pbc3eRUr6h7Qhg>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>>>
>>>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>>>
>>>>> President
>>>>>
>>>>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>>>>
>>>>> 602 309 0500
>>>>>
>>>>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>
>>>>> |  JAMES BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  
>>>>> **V.I.P.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/VintageOriginalMoviePosters/>
>>>>> <https://www.ebay.com/str/cinemasterpieces>
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>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2I8OsG6pbc3eRUr6h7Qhg>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>>
>>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>>
>>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>>>
>>>> 602 309 0500
>>>>
>>>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>
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>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>>
>>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>>
>>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>>
>>> 602 309 0500
>>>
>>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>  |  JAMES
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>>> ARCHIVE <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/newest.htm>*
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>
>>
>> *The World's Finest Selection of Vintage Original Movie Posters*
>>
>> *DAVID A. LIEBERMAN*
>>
>> President
>>
>> *Featured Expert on The History Channel TV Show Pawn Stars*
>>
>> 602 309 0500
>>
>> *STAR WARS <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinestarwars.htm>  |  JAMES
>> BOND <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/cinejamesbond.htm>  |  **V.I.P.
>> ARCHIVE <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/newest.htm>*
>>
>> *    REFERENCES
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/customertestimonials.htm>  |  FAQ
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/faq.htm>  |  ABOUT US
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/aboutus.htm>  |  **WE BUY POSTERS
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/consignment.htm#buy>*
>>
>> <https://www.cinemasterpieces.com/>    <[email protected]>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/VintageOriginalMoviePosters/>
>> <https://www.ebay.com/str/cinemasterpieces>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-lieberman-cinemasterpieces/>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2I8OsG6pbc3eRUr6h7Qhg>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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>
>
> --
> Bruce Hershenson and the other 22 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
> P.O. Box 874
> West Plains, MO 65775
> Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we
> take lunch)
> our site <http://www.emovieposter.com/>
> our auctions <http://www.emovieposter.com/agallery/all.html>
>
> * Complete Buyer Protection
> <http://www.emovieposter.com/unused/20120625ad_emovieposter_no_buyer_beware_buyer_warranty.jpg>
> - *No time limit on our guarantees & *NO* buyer beware
> * Hershenson Help Hotline
> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/20120906_mcw_ad_hershenson_help_hotline_forsite.jpg>
> - *Direct line to Bruce (our owner!) for urgent problems
> Also, please read the following three pages of in-depth* Customer Reviews
> *of our company * - Page 1
> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page1.jpg>,
> Page 2
> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page2.jpg>,
> Page 3
> <http://www.emovieposter.com/images/announcements/buyerreviews_page3.jpg>*,
> which shows you in our customers' own words exactly what makes our company
> and our auctions so very different from all others!
>
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