[Dan] > Subjects and objects are intellectual patterns of values...ideas. So it > seems pretty simple to see that ideas come before matter, which Mr. > Pirsig has said numerous times.
Dan, Don't we need the "use/mention distinction" here? Suppose I say: "There are 2 objects on the shelf." (E.g., a candle & a vase) I mean that there are 2 static inorganic patterns on the shelf. I don't mean that there are 2 ideas or 2 intellectual patterns of values there. If we increase the temperature in the room, the candle melts. Ideas melt in a different way. (I dunno. "Any idea I had of leaving the party melted away when she entered the room.") If instead I say: "Candles fall under the category 'object'." Then 'object' will refer to an intellectual patterns of value. As for which came first, matter or ideas?: "Matter is contained in static inorganic patterns. Mind is contained in static intellectual patterns. Both mind and matter are completely separate evolutionary levels of static patterns of value, and as such are capable of each containing the other without cont radiction... Mental patterns do not originate out of inorganic nature. They originate out of society, which originates out of biology which originates out of inorganic nature." (RMP, "Lila", Chap. 12) Craig Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
