fortunately it's not as easy as that SA, otherwise....well things would be even weirder than they are.
"not i but the father within me" this is a phrase, biblical of course, that i have run across lately in couple of places: miller and baird spalding. in miller's case he is referring to the creative process. it is not *he* that creates, it is by aligning himself with that which is within and without (the father) that creation occurs. we probably have all had the experience of ideas coming to us from nowhere...this is the same sorta thing. when you replace 'father' with Tao or Quality, the meaning remains the same. we cannot manifest whimsically; it is through being a conduit, a vehicle for the creative principle itself that creation happens. for instance you cannot try and manifest heaps of dough cos you want heaps of dough, but if you wish to set up a free hospital somewhere in dire need of one you may find a benefactor appears out of the blue. not that i have had much experience with this sorta thing. a little of the above variety, where the people or resources necessary to enable a good idea seem to be attracted by themselves. but if what JC was on about then one can align themselves so perfectly with the dynamic - the creative principle - such that one's word or thought can manifest instantly. hey i have never seen this happen yet but it sure would be cool. --- Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ham, I have no idea what gav and others are > talking about. I'm going to think real hard and > watch > a bird pop out of thin air just as I thought it > would > be a good idea. While I'm at it my idea of a tree > growing on the moon will happen tonight too. > > SA > > > > > > [Gav said]: > > > > Prior to conceptual reality is the > > > undifferentiated flux of the present. > > > > Conceptual reality is *abstracted* from this > > flux. > > > this abstraction is > > > > a mental process. a process of ideation. > > > > > > > ham: Ideation is a good metaphor for > > intellectualization. > > '> But it does not create > > > the "stuff" of the universe. > > > > gav: yes it does. this point is unequivocal. this > > point is found in all traditions and in the work > of > > good western philosophers like schopenhauer, > pirsig > > and plato. > > > > our problem accepting this point is due to our > > fixation with material reality - literally. > > 'material > > reality' ain't fixed. if you have ever had a > strong > > psychedelic experience you will have experienced > > first > > hand that that which we thought was static and > > concrete is actually in flux. > > > > there is no dilemma here, only a call for a > profound > > shift in perspective. a totally new worldview is > the > > result - one in which the observer is intimately > > aware > > of his/her creative relationship to what is > > observed. > > > > ian said: > > > ie our idea of matter as material objects is > > > literally not real, not > > > pre-existing our experience and conceptions. > > > > i need to try bergson out again. i found him very > > hard > > going last time. but yes he seems to be on the > same > > page. > > > > if we approach this question from a physics angle > we > > get to the same conclusion. matter consists of > > infinitesimally small particles that zip round and > > blip in and out of existence. matter becomes a > field > > of potentiality. a field that is itself infinite: > > unlimited in space and time. indeed space and time > > are > > found to have no objective reality, therefore how > > can > > matter? the observer creates what is perceived > > (unconsciously usually) every moment. > > > > even if this seems just too bizarre, just accept > it > > hypothetically....can you see now how the idea of > > god > > becomes meaningful rather than an abstract > > non-entity? > > > > > > even in the christian sense...'in the beginning > was > > the word'...this actually makes sense when you > > consider it from this perspective as the 'word' is > > an > > idea given creative power. > > > > i should probably read the bible too i think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free > > unlimited storage. > > > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. > Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
