hiya
> [Gav said]:
> > Prior to conceptual reality is the
> undifferentiated flux of the present.
> > Conceptual reality is *abstracted* from this flux.
> this abstraction is
> > a mental process. a process of ideation.
>
ham: Ideation is a good metaphor for
intellectualization.
'> But it does not create
> the "stuff" of the universe.
gav: yes it does. this point is unequivocal. this
point is found in all traditions and in the work of
good western philosophers like schopenhauer, pirsig
and plato.
our problem accepting this point is due to our
fixation with material reality - literally. 'material
reality' ain't fixed. if you have ever had a strong
psychedelic experience you will have experienced first
hand that that which we thought was static and
concrete is actually in flux.
there is no dilemma here, only a call for a profound
shift in perspective. a totally new worldview is the
result - one in which the observer is intimately aware
of his/her creative relationship to what is observed.
ian said:
> ie our idea of matter as material objects is
> literally not real, not
> pre-existing our experience and conceptions.
i need to try bergson out again. i found him very hard
going last time. but yes he seems to be on the same
page.
if we approach this question from a physics angle we
get to the same conclusion. matter consists of
infinitesimally small particles that zip round and
blip in and out of existence. matter becomes a field
of potentiality. a field that is itself infinite:
unlimited in space and time. indeed space and time are
found to have no objective reality, therefore how can
matter? the observer creates what is perceived
(unconsciously usually) every moment.
even if this seems just too bizarre, just accept it
hypothetically....can you see now how the idea of god
becomes meaningful rather than an abstract non-entity?
even in the christian sense...'in the beginning was
the word'...this actually makes sense when you
consider it from this perspective as the 'word' is an
idea given creative power.
i should probably read the bible too i think.
>
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