Hi Dallas, I like your point that 'the self is inherently empty', so 'surely there is little basis to really rely on an idea like a continuous ego that pops up life after life'.
But don't the Buddhists say that for lay people previous incarnations are not recalled whereas for 'enlightened' ones past lives are remembered. That could be understood to mean that in ordinary waking life our thoughts are jumbled but when we can act with an awareness of our physicality then a sense of continuity can develop. I accept that the ego is empty and that there is no soul and that my target is oblivion, but not just yet; I'll be around for a while still. Regards -Peter On 16/10/2007, Dallas Van Winkle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Ok. I'm not too keen on the whole life after > death stuff. I know we are living. I don't know > beyond that." > > Some of Chogyam Trungpa's advice was similar. He thought the idea of > physical reincarnation might lend people to become too complacent. "Oh I > can > be lazy in this life because I always have another life." which is just an > extension of "Right now i'm not so good, but in the future, when I change > i'll > be a lot better." > > I think that if you really want to understand everything implied by > incarnation, you have to look at the whole picture and include things such > as the emptiness of ego. If one of the fundamental truths of Buddhism is > that the self is inherently empty, then surely there is little basis to > really rely on an idea like a continuous ego that pops up life after life. > But, on the other hand, death itself is sort of a continuity. The whole > point is that life is not apart from death. > > So, as we can see, it can't be such a simple thing. > > > On 10/16/07, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [Peter] > > > I don't understand the connection you are trying to > > > prompt between the > > > Dalai's use of the word 'freedom' and the moq's > > > dynamic quality. Are you > > > suggesting they are the same? > > > > [SA quotes from Lila] > > > > [Ch. 3] > > "Freedom. That was the topic that would drive > > home this whole understanding of Indians. Of all the > > topics his slips on Indians covered, freedom was the > > most important." > > > > > > [Ch. 9] > > "Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting > > edge of reality, the source of all things, completely > > simple and always new. It was the moral force that had > > motivated the brujo in Zuni. It contains no pattern of > > fixed rewards and punishments. Its only perceived good > > is freedom..." > > > > [Ch. 11] > > "But in a value-centered explanation of evolution > > they are close to the Dynamic process itself, pulling > > the pattern of life forward to greater levels of > > versatility and freedom." > > > > [Ch. 12] > > "A primary occupation of every level of evolution > > seems to be offering freedom to lower levels of > > evolution." > > > > [Ch. 17] > > "'Freedom' doesn't mean anything. Freedom's just > > an escape from something negative. The real reason > > it's so hallowed is that when people talk about it > > they mean Dynamic Quality." > > > > > > I don't feel like finding more quotes, but what > > do you think? > > > > [Peter] > > > I didn't get much beyond the first phrase in the > > > clip Marsha posted; 'To > > > attain freedom...'. > > > He talks from a position of authority as if he > > > already has this freedom and > > > so he can advise you about it. Freedom for what I > > > ask again? Freedom against > > > the Chinese - obviously not? Freedom from suffering? > > > > > > He is asking for more autonomy for the Tibetan > > people. Any teacher can be seen as in a position of > > authority. Parents are in positions of authority. No > > big deal. > > > > > > [Peter] > > > I think most people will subliminally equate the > > > Dalai's use of the word > > > 'freedom' with salvation from oblivion, and that I > > > can't go along with. The > > > inorganic matter that forms the substrate for that > > > Lama's sense of > > > individuality will one day be absorbed back into the > > > dirt. Buddhism, like > > > Christianity and Islam, promises life after death; > > > realising the lie in that > > > is one of the biggest steps to freedom you can take. > > > > Ok. I'm not too keen on the whole life after > > death stuff. I know we are living. I don't know > > beyond that. > > > > woods, > > SA > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! > > Autos. > > http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
