[Ron]
> I suppose I might be bias in the area of the
> statement,
> When I was a professional illustrator I would get
> clients
> Who would say "I'll know it when I see it" which
> didn't tell
> Me a damn thing except that it's up to you to find
> out what I like.
> Like I said it didn't give me a gosh damn clue.
> At best it was a vague gesture at the moon which
> could mean
> Anything in the moons general direction.
> 9 times out of 10 what they thought was good was
> utter crap to me.
> But that was because I was more tuned to what was
> culturally acceptable
> And expected within that realm.
SA:
Could you let them know what was good or what was
good was only according to what you thought was good?
How did you know what was good? How were you tuned in
to what a culture wanted and they weren't? Did they
live in another culture?
Ron:
How I learned what was good was by observing culturally accepted
examples
Of what was good which I have to admit, having been raised in the
culture
Colors my own perception. Art school honed that ideal of high value art
By granting me a graduation cert. and a 3.45 grade average for my
perception
Of what was culturally acceptable as good. And being able to produce it.
It is the business of creating symbol (the commercial part) .
Attractive symbols grab attention and sell products.
Most people do not develop this sort of sensitivity in this area of
Perception but most clients come from the angle that they want what pay
for
Instead of wanting whats best. They don't seem to realize that they are
Not only paying for artistic ability but our developed sensitivities for
Creating a successful piece that will achieve the objective (creating
revenue usually)
[Ron]
> I guess what I'm saying is "I know it when I see it"
> Only is applicable to the one making the statement.
> It doesn't tell anyone else a thing.
SA:
What is quality? I've been discussing this for
some time now, and I see dmb agrees with me.
Ron:
On an individual basis I agree. But who of us was born and raised
without
Culture? Do not a certain level of our values must be in accordance
with cultural values in order for us to function within it?
I think if we are going to talk Quality we better have some idea of what
it is and by the reckoning we all generally agree with Pirsigs
description
In our social group.
But we're talking about intellect which Pirsig define as a level
And uses the concept of Pre-intellect as a cornerstone to his
Concept of MoQ.
You can talk DQ/SQ all day but I would point out
That what more can you say about it
Once the initial concept is grasped.
Besides writing Poetry and expressing our
Experience, which is cool and I love it,
But I didn't join a poetry forum I joined
MoQ discuss which discusses MoQ concepts.
Not only expressing our individual experience.
I get what you're saying. I guess I'm really interested in
Clarifying the map, so others can find their way with more ease.
Misconceptions can breed all sorts of stumbling blocks.
We are never going to agree about everything and that's
Part of the beauty of this forum because we are all
Individual contributors but if we see a flaw in the map
I feel we should endeavor to clarify it. There are two
MoQ's, the experience of the individual and the cultural
Conception. They are not one in the same and often I get the
Feeling that it is taken to be so.
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