Hi DMB You use the metaphor of shaping clay.
Interesting, but can we say more about how MOQ gives account whereas SOM does not? And does shaping work as a metaphor? Is there anything that is shaped? David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "david buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > > Ham said: > Coming into being presupposes a primary cause or source. > > dmb says: > Does it? Why? > > I think you're only saying that creatures presuppose a creator. As I > understand it, this quasi-theological nonsense grows out of the nature of > our language, where we say trees are made of wood and mountains are made > of rock, which implies a maker. But trees aren't made of wood. They ARE > wood and they weren't made. They just grow. Mountains ARE rock and come > into being on their own account. The idea of a maker is called something > like "the ceremanic paradigm" and is common to all the early > civilizations. You know, clay is shapeless and soft until its formed into > something useful and fired in a furnace. The universal use of this > technology and the structure of our languages (and who knows what else) > has combined to make us suppose there's some divine potter behind it all. > But still, its nonsense. From an empirical perspective, I can't think of a > single reason to believe there is such a thing as a primary cause. > > Why do you suppose it is presupposed by things coming to be? Isn't that > based on the assumption that the universe is shapeless and dumb, like > clay? > > Thanks. > _________________________________________________________________ > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. > http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
