what produces love? DM
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:41 AM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > [Ham, reconctructed] >>1) If a particle is [not] a figment of your mind, it must come into >> existence. >>2) If it exists in your mind, then you must have come into >> existence in order to possess a mind. >>3) A particle is either a figment of your mind or is not. >> 4) :. In either case, whatever exists has to be and being (at least in >> the finite sense that we experience >> it) cannot arise from nothing. >> That's the logic of 'ex nihilo, nihil fit". > > If that's the logic, it is invalid. The valid conclusion would be > 4') A particle (that exists) must come into existence. > 4'), however, is not at issue. > > [Ham] >> (a) Everything in existence comes into being at some point in time. (b) >> If it all starts with a Big Bang, > > something had to produce the bang. > > (a) = 4') &, again, is not at issue. (b), however, is self-contradictory. > If it all starts with a Big Bang, then there can't be something that > produces the bang: otherwise, it would start with that something. > What are the possibilities: > I) Everything that exists has existed since the beginning of time or was > created from something that did. > II) Some things come into existence after others but are not created from > them. > III) Some things are created, but not from other things. > > [Craig, previously] >> But what if you have something that you can't find what it was created >> from? Will you take that as a >> counter-example or will you insist that there must be a source as yet >> undiscovered (& on what basis)? > > [Ham] >> What is your "counter-example"? > > Something that you can't find what it was created from? > Craig > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
