I'd suggest that the source of everything is the possible, when what is actual equals nothing, then everything is possible!
David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ham Priday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > > Craig -- > > After "reconstructing Ham" to turn my assertions into a syllogism (I did > not > mean them to be), you not only deny the validity of my logic but claim my > conclusion is "not at issue". > >> If that's the logic, it is invalid. The valid conclusion would be >> 4') A particle (that exists) must come into existence. >> 4'), however, is not at issue. > > As I see it, the issue is that whatever exists must come into being. > Therefore, a particle that exists comes into being as does a Big Bang. > Coming into being presupposes a primary cause or source. > > You say: >> If it all starts with a Big Bang, then there can't be something that >> produces the bang: otherwise, it would start with that something. > > Exactly. That's what we're looking for -- the something that "produces > the > bang". > >> What are the possibilities: >> I) Everything that exists has existed since the beginning of time >> or was created from something that did. >> II) Some things come into existence after others but are >> not created from them. >> III) Some things are created, but not from other things. > > I will critique your assertions, as you did mine, and say that [II] and > [III] are not at issue. What is relevant is > [I] and the question it implies: What is it that has existed since the > beginning of time? > > I know of nothing in existence whose being does not have a beginning. Do > you? > > So, if every existent (being) has a beginning, your question "what if you > have something that you can't find what it was created from?" actually > applies to ALL existents, since we do not have empirical knowledge of what > gives rise to being. > > My question, then, can be reduced to: What do you believe gives rise to > being? > You can choose to answer this question or not; but I see no point in > drawing > this discussion into an endless word game. > > --Ham > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
