[Heather]
I understand what your saying here Matt. Three
questions. Have you read, 'The Guidebook to ZMM'? It
is more intellectual in nature.
Secondly, ZMM autobiographical was not fictional,
and I would say, it was the ground in which the more
strictly intellectual aspects of ZMM manifested itself
from. So, my second sincere question is, what else do
you do besides strictly intellectual pursuits? You
don't overlook them, or do you?
[Matt]
First, no, I have not read the guidebook. Is it in libraries, or where do I
find it?
Right, ZMM was autobiographical, not purely fictional. My point was that it
wasn't in essay form, and therefore will have difficulty being critiqued by
notable (please don't ask me to define notable; I can't) scholars of the
day.
No, I am not "the purely philosophical reader." It seems this was something
Krimel was questioning, too. I enjoy jazz bass, writing fiction/poetry,
reading literature, and the cinema (especially foreign films). I also
(cliche as I am) like the rain, among many other things. Many of these
things often take up more of my attention than philosophy. But, however, if
the chair of the philosophy department at a top university (such as Harvard,
etc.) were reading ZMM or Lila, he would have difficulty evaluating Pirsig's
ideas from a purely philosophical standpoint because of the way Pirsig wrote
it. Not that Pirsig should have put it in essay form (I loved ZMM), but that
if he was specifically trying to create a breakthrough in philosophy, he
likely would have had a better chance with a few essays rather than a few
novels.
[Platt]
How did I "butcher" his quote? He is merely citing the difference, as
Pirsig does, between a menu and food.
I think I understand what you mean, but disagree with it as far as it was
trying to justify Pirsig in putting his philosopihcal work in
fiction/autobiographies rather than essays.
[Krimel]
Quality is not something you have to struggle to see. It's right in front
of your face all the time. Quality is existence, experience, reality.
Right---I should have said Pirsig's idea of Quality rather than Quality
itself. I think I am right in saying that Pirsig's views on Quality at least
develop (if change is too harsh a word) throughout the book.
[Krimel]
I don't know what "readers" you have in mind other than yourself. Nor do I
know who you mean by the "philosophical community," as if there is some
sort of exclusive club for those interested in ideas. As for having his
philosophy in the form you prefer, I presume you are familiar with his SODV
paper.
As for readers, I meant the purely philosophical readers and wasn't
referring to myself. When or if philosophy experts (a category from which I
am exempt) attempt to understand Pirsig and evaluate his ideas, they will
have difficulty because of the novel nature of Pirsig's writings.
Admittantly I used a bad term in "philosophical community". I meant the
circle of philosophy scholars, professors, and experts that collectively
argue about these things for a living. The kind of people you can cite in a
college research paper, etc.
I can't remember if I read his SODV paper; is that the one on the
moq.org website that Pirsig gave at a philosophy conference somewhere
(Liverpool?)? If so, I glanced over it; I have a friend that read it. No,
you're problably talking about something else. How can I access this paper?
It could be useful. As for being the form I prefer, I am not sure. Going
back, I still would have kept ZMM and Lila fictional (great writing).
But philosophically, I may prefer the paper.
[Krimel]
To you, perhaps, but not to me. I thoroughly enjoyed "Brave New World" and
"1984."
Yes, I enjoyed both of them too. Huxley has a wonderful subtle prose, while
Orwell is more systematic (making 1984 like a literary version of Citizen
Kane)
On 12/6/07, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [Matt]
> > Not to mention the irrelevant
> > autobiographical story Pirsig has us
> > jump in and out of. The problem with Pirsig not
> > writing in essay from is not
> > necessarily the accuracy of his ideas but the fact
> > that very few
> > philosophical expert will want to have to dig
> > through the fiction and
> > thought process to find out what Pirsig is really
> > saying; if Pirsig doesn't
> > bother putting his ideas in essay form, they
> > shouldn't bother listening to
> > him. Those are the main problems with fictional
> > novels as a way to present
> > philosophical ideas to a philosophical community.
> > I'm not saying that all
> > philosophy is in essay form, I'm saying all current
> > philosophy should be in
> > essay form for the reader's sake. At the moment, I
> > won't mention the dronish
> > lack of quality in the moq.org essays (I even saw an
> > essay with a "Works
> > Sited" page). Hilarious.
> > While alternate forms of philosophical expression
> > may be cute, in this case,
> > Pirsig's fiction is an annoyance to the purely
> > philosophical reader.
>
>
>
>
>
> I understand what your saying here Matt. Three
> questions. Have you read, 'The Guidebook to ZMM'? It
> is more intellectual in nature.
> Secondly, ZMM autobiographical was not fictional,
> and I would say, it was the ground in which the more
> strictly intellectual aspects of ZMM manifested itself
> from. So, my second sincere question is, what else do
> you do besides strictly intellectual pursuits? You
> don't overlook them, or do you?
>
>
> SA
>
>
>
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