i think that the subject-object split underlies the intellectual level. i think julian jaynes and bo would agree.
the intellectual level is that level where the individual is born - the individual is a subject, the subject split from the world of objects. the problem with SOM is that this split was presumed to be the whole nature of reality, rather than a tool with which to analogise it. the split is crucial. 'the fall' is this split. this myth is about man's fall from paradisical unity because he sought: THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE. result: eviction. result: the journey of the self begins. the myth of the fall has to be seen from both directions: yes it is a bummer to lose oneness with all, with god, but it is necessary if we are to become gods ourselves, which is the point of human evolution. the intellect is a powerful tool facilitates this spiritual growth. it leads first into separation - the split - as the child (after age 7 i believe) becomes individuated. from here the ego begins to assume control. after the child has become a fully individuated adult the intellect begins to lead him back to unity, to a resolution of the split. to a diminution of the ego. the MOQ is a great example of the intellect doing this. intellect points the way - takes us the the point of departure....and the beginning of wholeness, unity once more, but this time *conscious* of our own godhood, our identity with the cosmos. so bo is right, the subject/object split is inseparable from the intellectual level. it gave rise to it. even when we are thinking in MOQ terms we are still subjects thinking in terms of objects. the crucial difference is that *we are now aware of this*. this awareness means that the we can forget about reaching absolute truth....no one is absolutely right or wrong...no idea is absolutely right or wrong. we are always in the realm of relativity, context-dependence at the intellectual level. the absolute is *experienced* pre-intellectually; it is unequivocal. the intellect is the key that opens the door to the experience of one's own godhood or buddha nature. --- Dan Glover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:20:51 -0500 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect > > > > At 03:15 PM 12/16/2007, you wrote: > > > >>Hello everyone > >> > >>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:41:11 -0500 > >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect > >>> > >>> > >>> Dan, > >>> > >>> What do you think of making the Intellectual > Level subject/object > >>> only, and creating a MOQ level above? > >> > >>Hi Marsha > >>It doesn't jibe with the way I understand the MOQ. > Like the SOM, the > >>MOQ is a theory, an idea, a static quality > intellectual pattern of > >>value. That seems pretty simple. I see no reason > to posit any > >>further levels. It only complicates matters. > >> > >>Thank you, > >> > >>Dan > > > > Thanks Dan, > > > > That's the way I see it too. Maybe if Bo's problem > can be better > > understood, a better way to address it will > surface. > > Hi Marsha > I notice that I often become manic about certain > ideas and worry them like an old dog worries a bone > but I tend to grow tired after a while and like the > old dog let go. I admire Bo's tenacity but have > nothing more to add that would serve to change his > mind. He's been gnawing this bone for nigh on 10 > years now and I am still not sure who he hopes to > convince save himself or what difference said > convincing will make. His jaw has got to be tired > though. > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
