Hi Peter Sounds about right to me.
David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Corteen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect > Hi Gav, > > I liked your post. > I think man began his still unfolding journey through the SOM when merely > social living proved inadequate to fulfill all his needs; he had problems > to > solve and so he learned to think better. Gradually he learnt to think > about > thinking. For all the greed and ego that comes out of the SOL way of > thought > nevertheless we are still reaping the benefits and there is still much > more > mileage for mankind in SOL. > We are beginning to see the limitations though and increasingly man > recognises the need to consider the effects of his inventions in the > larger > system. SOL dreamt up systems thinking and MoQ, but MoQ is not merely a > new > way of thinking, it necessarily involves awareness that the mind has a > body > and the body has an environment. > > Jaynes pointed to the origins of the idea of God and that germ of an idea > back some thousands of years eventually ripened into SOM. > I don't think there is an end to knowledge and the utility of SOL, just > that > we need to see it's limitations and be more aware of some of it's negative > consequences. > > -Peter > > > On 17/12/2007, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> i think that the subject-object split underlies the >> intellectual level. >> >> i think julian jaynes and bo would agree. >> >> the intellectual level is that level where the >> individual is born - the individual is a subject, the >> subject split from the world of objects. the problem >> with SOM is that this split was presumed to be the >> whole nature of reality, rather than a tool with which >> to analogise it. >> >> the split is crucial. 'the fall' is this split. this >> myth is about man's fall from paradisical unity >> because he sought: THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE. result: >> eviction. result: the journey of the self begins. >> >> the myth of the fall has to be seen from both >> directions: yes it is a bummer to lose oneness with >> all, with god, but it is necessary if we are to become >> gods ourselves, which is the point of human evolution. >> >> the intellect is a powerful tool facilitates this >> spiritual growth. it leads first into separation - the >> split - as the child (after age 7 i believe) becomes >> individuated. from here the ego begins to assume >> control. >> >> after the child has become a fully individuated adult >> the intellect begins to lead him back to unity, to a >> resolution of the split. to a diminution of the ego. >> the MOQ is a great example of the intellect doing >> this. >> >> intellect points the way - takes us the the point of >> departure....and the beginning of wholeness, unity >> once more, but this time *conscious* of our own >> godhood, our identity with the cosmos. >> >> so bo is right, the subject/object split is >> inseparable from the intellectual level. it gave rise >> to it. even when we are thinking in MOQ terms we are >> still subjects thinking in terms of objects. the >> crucial difference is that *we are now aware of this*. >> >> this awareness means that the we can forget about >> reaching absolute truth....no one is absolutely right >> or wrong...no idea is absolutely right or wrong. we >> are always in the realm of relativity, >> context-dependence at the intellectual level. the >> absolute is *experienced* pre-intellectually; it is >> unequivocal. >> >> the intellect is the key that opens the door to the >> experience of one's own godhood or buddha nature. >> >> >> >> --- Dan Glover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:20:51 -0500 >> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect >> > > >> > > At 03:15 PM 12/16/2007, you wrote: >> > > >> > >>Hello everyone >> > >> >> > >>> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:41:11 -0500 >> > >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >>> Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Dan, >> > >>> >> > >>> What do you think of making the Intellectual >> > Level subject/object >> > >>> only, and creating a MOQ level above? >> > >> >> > >>Hi Marsha >> > >>It doesn't jibe with the way I understand the MOQ. >> > Like the SOM, the >> > >>MOQ is a theory, an idea, a static quality >> > intellectual pattern of >> > >>value. That seems pretty simple. I see no reason >> > to posit any >> > >>further levels. It only complicates matters. >> > >> >> > >>Thank you, >> > >> >> > >>Dan >> > > >> > > Thanks Dan, >> > > >> > > That's the way I see it too. Maybe if Bo's problem >> > can be better >> > > understood, a better way to address it will >> > surface. >> > >> > Hi Marsha >> > I notice that I often become manic about certain >> > ideas and worry them like an old dog worries a bone >> > but I tend to grow tired after a while and like the >> > old dog let go. I admire Bo's tenacity but have >> > nothing more to add that would serve to change his >> > mind. He's been gnawing this bone for nigh on 10 >> > years now and I am still not sure who he hopes to >> > convince save himself or what difference said >> > convincing will make. His jaw has got to be tired >> > though. >> > >> > Dan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> >> >> >> Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail >> now. www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
