there must be an unknown before you can have faith (or not). as a very personal thing - I prefer faith - even if it's not faith in 'anything', even if it's faith that there is 'nothing' (which is sometimes just as comforting as trying/wanting to believe in something).
I make a conscious choice to have faith in a greater purpose (like that there is a general direction toward quality in the universe maybe?) because it makes me feel better. Some people who are (in our opinion)less educated, less intellectual; benefit from having faith in something - even a God who doles out illogical justice - because it keeps them from being even more anxious - with some however - their affiliation with some organized religion and their social need to 'fit in' makes them even worse (evangelical charismatics who want to kill others for their beliefs). But I don't think it’s the faith that's the problem, it's their social need for approval and their not knowing their own psyche - or even being 'aware' of a psyche. Who am I to judge whether they would be better without their faith - some people might be worse. The world would be better if more people had a better awareness and were able to contemplate their own need for a God with an objective mind - but this is very hard for a lot of people to do. They are terrified to let go in this way. I read an article or saw a you tube video not so long ago about a man who has just kept changing to different religions - first he was Catholic, then Baptist, then a few other brands of Christianity, then Muslim - and now he's left the US and is fighting on behalf of one of these sects in the Middle East. Why wasn't he able to consider that NOT having a religion was also a choice? > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Heather Perella > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:41 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MD] The End of Faith > > > > [Ron] > > I was stressing that evidence is relative. Evidence > > is up to interpretation > > And if the only qualifier between faith and reason > > is the evidence provided > > Then who is to say who is right and who is wrong? > > > SA: I'm looking more at what does faith do. What > does reason do? Evidence can be interpreted in many > ways, we can call a rock by many names. We can give a > drawing of a pink elephant many interpretations, but > how does interpretation fit in with faith and reason? > With faith, it seems for example, somebodies asking > somebody else to believe what their saying. They > don't provide anything, not even a good outcome, to > any event as a basis for why anybody should believe > them. It is a matter of faith. You just believe them > and go along with what their saying. At least a pink > elephant is a drawing I can look at and decide for > myself. What about dreams, what about the ghosts of > reason, such as laws of gravity, etc...? Well, these > can be linked with something. If somebody comes up to > me and says they had a dream about a tree. I would > think, ok, and... It isn't a matter of me believing > if they did have a dream about a tree or not, what > does it matter to me? Now if they say they had a > dream about a tree falling on me and killing me, well, > I may wonder about, I might laugh, I might do any > number of things. I guess I'll see what happens when > and if anything like that happens. > > > [Ron] > > Empirical scientific data Can be interpreted in many > different ways. > > What makes one interpretation More viable than > another? > > Remember the tv program Northern exposure? When > > Leonard the shaman would Visit Dr. Fleishman? > Fleishman would > > ridicule leonards methods as mystic > > Faith based mumbo-jumbo but when Leonard cured > > patients that Fleishman > > could not, Joel would be astounded and amazed citing > > that there was some > > scientific explanation that there was no rational, > > reasonable way > > Leonard's methods worked. Yet there was the > > evidence, but Joel > > interpreted it differently chalking it all up to the > > placebo effect. > > Sorta like blind faith. Trust in a belief no matter > > what experience says > > to the contrary. > > I was just warning that blind faith falls on both > > sides of the fence. > > > SA: If Leonard's methods are working, then something > pertinent is happening. Maybe I'll find out what it > is that works about Leonard's methods, maybe I won't. > Does it matter? I guess if I'm interesting in finding > out how they work, I could ask Leonard, then see if I > could do the same. > > > woods, > SA > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ______________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1241 - Release > Date: 1/24/2008 9:58 AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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