Ron said: ...its interpretation of data or interpretation of experience that's key. One person's miracle is another's lite lunch. If evidence is the only qualifier between faith and reason who's to say whose interpretation trumps if the data is the same but the explanation varies?
dmb says: Well, that's just it. That's the kind of debate worth having, one that might lead to some good. When both sides are working with reason and evidence, nobody really looses. The end of faith means the beginning of a philosophical conversation. And when both sides have the data on their side equally the aesthetic considerations, further explorations and creativity come into play. This is the desired end in the battle against faith. This is about the evolutionary freedom of the intellect, see?. Ron said: I think there is a difference between blind faith and faith, faith being The trust in a belief. That trust is based on interpreted data. How can you Argue with someone who sees devils and angels behind the scenes causing Observable phenom or when we attribute it to DQ, both have equal evidence Both interpret the same data differently. I've never been able to circumvent anyone's logic based on interpreted experience. Christian scientist have this case pretty air tight. I ask show me evidence of angels they ask to show them evidence of electrons. Like I said I'm with you but I've had arguments with these people and I never once won. Any advice would be helpful. dmb says: I don't understand why you can't just show them the evidence for electrons. Search the web and print out a few things. I've never tried myself but I'd bet you could do it in less than an hour. Secondly, I don't think anyone should accept DQ as the invisible cause of visible events. Its like Dewey says, evil as its known in experience is real enough all by itself and there's no need to assert the existence of a larger, metaphysical evil as its cause. DQ itself refers to a category of experience and is not supposed to be something apart from the experience itself. It's that cutting edge of reality or experience before you've had a chance to think about it. The other day I heard Peter Fonda talking about his childhood. Apparently, Henry Fonda was a christian scientist. When Peter, Jane and the other kids got sick he not only refused to give them any medicine, he made them believe that their suffering was caused by their own spiritual shortcomings. He did this to children, to his own children! That's cruel and immoral. That's child abuse and it is very far from reasonable, let alone "air tight". It's probably safe to say that this theology has killed a few people and some of them were probably kids too young to fight back. As Christopher Hitchens says, religion poisons everything. Not least of all, families. _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
