> dmb says: > I don't understand why you can't just show them the evidence > for electrons. Search the web and print out a few things. > I've never tried myself but I'd bet you could do it in less > than an hour. >
ha ha - "I've never tried it myself" - I think you should try it david - arguing with a pig is far simpler. not a gung ho zealot - how about just your average everyday Southern Baptist with a college education who goes to Church on Sunday - - the argument quickly goes from "but the Bible is the word of god" and then you try to point out that the bible was written by men who left out books and rewrote it the way they needed to for political purposes and then they say 'but it's still the word of god - if it's the way it is right now, it's because that is the way god wanted it' and then if you start to argue about the fact that there isn't a God - just because you can't see him/it prove it with electron theory and so on - they just laugh at you - they say that's just science and science doesn't know everything - which it doesn't. but even if you were to try it - it is still everyone's choice what to believe in. I've seen faith heal people and I've seen just the idea that there might be a god do just as many wonderful things for people. My grandmother spent every day working inside of a church having mother's morning out for free for moms to leave their children under 5 so they could go shopping and not pull their hair out. My grandmother called a list of people every day who were shut in's and couldn't get out of the house. She called just to chat with them and see that they were alright and show them that someone was thinking about them. I never heard her preach about god to any of these people even though it was all done through the methodist church. I have to say I think she did a lot better for people than you will do showing them that there isn't a god and they have to think for themselves - which will more than likely fill them with fear and anxiety - because for a lot of people - not having something to believe in is very disconcerting. How many people have you called and shared love with this week? It is far more of a challenge to look inside yourself and see what it is that makes you think that you know better than all of these other people what is best for them. everyone is entitled to their own experience and everyone is moving toward their perceptions of quality at their own rate - if you are buddhist, you believe they have more than one lifetime to come back and do it again...that's a much calmer way to think of it - and the absolute best thing you can do while you are here is offer compassion to those around you. I agree that what Henry Fonday subjected his children to, seems barbaric and absurd - BUT I also think that there are plenty of MD's out there (the new priests) who (under the guise of their science and the medical party line) are doling out plenty of prescriptions for useless products - (were several million people all Prozac deficient all this time?) We're sold thousands of prescriptions a day by a medical culture that's telling us we can eat whatever we want and just take lots of pills for the symptoms. Even high blood pressure, cholestorol - and scientists who look at how much of our ill health is about being exposed to pesticides and plastics are poo pooed as snake oil salesmen. This is pretty absurd as well. - trying to convince someone else why they should not buy into organized religion is just as static but even more small minded. waste of time. look at what SA has been dealing with - trying to convince young women that not to want to live a drug filled life of violence. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Kulp > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:14 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MD] The End of Faith > > > > > Ron said: > ...its interpretation of data or interpretation of experience > that's key. One person's miracle is another's lite lunch. If > evidence is the only qualifier between faith and reason who's > to say whose interpretation trumps if the data is the same > but the explanation varies? > > dmb says: > Well, that's just it. That's the kind of debate worth having, > one that might lead to some good. When both sides are working > with reason and evidence, nobody really looses. The end of > faith means the beginning of a philosophical conversation. > And when both sides have the data on their side equally the > aesthetic considerations, further explorations and creativity > come into play. This is the desired end in the battle against > faith. This is about the evolutionary freedom of the intellect, see?. > > Ron : > > I see where you are coming from. > > dmb says: > I don't understand why you can't just show them the evidence > for electrons. Search the web and print out a few things. > I've never tried myself but I'd bet you could do it in less > than an hour. > > Ron: > Well this was just a for instance but it is still considered > Electron theory by science. I can't remember where the quote > Came from but it goes like this: "It is not important that > these findings are true what is Important is that the methods > for prediction correspond With observable phenomena." > > > dmb says: > The other day I heard Peter Fonda talking about his > childhood. Apparently, Henry Fonda was a christian scientist. > When Peter, Jane and the other kids got sick he not only > refused to give them any medicine, he made them believe that > their suffering was caused by their own spiritual > shortcomings. He did this to children, to his own children! > That's cruel and immoral. That's child abuse and it is very > far from reasonable, let alone "air tight". It's probably > safe to say that this theology has killed a few people and > some of them were probably kids too young to fight back. As > Christopher Hitchens says, religion poisons everything. Not > least of all, families. > > Ron: > I agree, I was saying that Christian Science has a lot of > experience Defending their beliefs, their argument, from > their own perspective Is solid because they use just enough > philosophy to justify Their stand. I'm just playing devils > advocate here, I am on Your side of the discussion. These > folks are dug in. Convincing them of their own disillusion is > a tough nut. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! > http://biggestloser.msn.com/ Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1241 - Release > Date: 1/24/2008 9:58 AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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