Hi Bo, Do you agree that both communism and fascism glorify social authority and willingly sacrifice individuals for the greater good? (Also, see comment below.)
Regards, Platt > Platt, Chris and interested parties. > Communism has been troublesome for the MOQ Discuss, but I > don't think it need be. (LILA) > > The hurricane of social forces released by the overthrow > of society by intellect was most strongly felt in Europe, > particularly Germany, where the effects of World War I > were the most devastating. Communism and socialism, > programs for intellectual control over society, were > confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a > program for the social control of intellect. > > This is correct IMO, Europe until the end of WW1 was not all > intellect - rational - run. The old social values of "my country right or > wrong" still ruled and that went for the armed forces more than any, and the > generals of all sides callously threw their armies into a sure annihilation. > Duty, discipline come what may. Then with it's aftermath (or during the war > in fact) came the communist revolution i Russia (Pirsig goes on) > Nowhere were the intellectuals more intense in their > determination to overthrow the old order. Nowhere did > the old order become more intent on finding ways to > destroy the excesses of the new intellectualism. Phædrus > thought that no other historical or political analysis > explains the enormity of these forces as clearly as does > the Metaphysics of Quality. > > Communism is a totally intellectual (objective) vision of an ideal > society (to each according to needs and from each according to > ability ...or something like that) It had immense appeal and > almost all western Europe countries got strong communist > movements and in post-war Germany a revolution was just > around the corner. I agree with Pirsig that the MOQ explain this > most convincingly. But NOTE this requires the S/O intellect, a > "manipulation of symbols" intellect makes zero sense. If any the > Nazis were the ones fond of symbols. > > The gigantic power of socialism and fascism, which have > overwhelmed this century, is explained by a conflict of > levels of evolution. This conflict explains the driving > force behind Hitler not as an insane search for power but > as an all-consuming glorification of social authority and > hatred of intellectualism. His anti-Semitism was fueled by > anti-intellectualism. His hatred of communists was fueled > by anti-intellectualism. His exaltation of the German volk > was fueled by it. His fanatic persecution of any kind of > intellectual freedom was driven by it. > > Right, regarding Hitler and right regarding the forces that > supported him, mostly the "landed gentry" in many countries, > Sweden and Norway too, who saw the collectivization as a great > threat. And around this time (of collectivization) communism went > bad, Christoffer says that nationalism took over, but the many > republics merging into the Soviet Union wasn't exactly a nation > like Pirsig speaking about the "German Volk" - yet. Perhaps the > MOQ explains this in an even deeper sense, that of intellect can't > operate as if disconnected from everything. It's "out of social > value" and can't neglect it. > > Nuff said. ...except that I agree with Christoffer on China, > Cambodia, North Korea and Cuba. I think our democracies, > social, or not so social, are the best. For Platts benefit I think > Europeans have a false impression of the USA as harsh on the > poor, "do or die" and such, but there's a lot of welfare programs, > bureaucracy too. [Platt] Yes, much too much interference of government, a steady loss of freedom since Wilson and SOM intellectuals were appointed to run society. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
